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#10687 - 03/22/06 05:45 PM Snares vs. cable restraints
Jim Ramsdell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Fairfield, Maine
Same thing or are they?? Isn't using the term "cable restraint" just a politically correct way of saying "snare" Gosh, the lengths politicians will go to keep the non-trapping folks happy.

Jim

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#10688 - 03/22/06 06:35 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
Not to me. When I set a snare, I fully expect it to dispatch the critter its targeting.

The biggest difference between "Cable Restraints" and "Snares" is entanglement. This does not include powered snares or compression springs, which can take the place of entanglement.

RO smile

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#10689 - 03/22/06 06:44 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Mike McChurin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 497
Loc: NE Oklahoma
To simplify the answer. Yes and No.

Cable restraints can be built to have the same lethal capabilities as "old fashioned" snares or they can utilize modern advancements and be used as a live restraint device.

Perhaps Hal or another accomplished snareman can fill you in on the details of similarities and differences between C.R.'s and snares.

Mike

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#10690 - 03/22/06 08:30 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Newtrapper07 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Mondovi Wi
so basically a cable restraint is considered a non-lethal snare set?

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#10691 - 03/22/06 09:01 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Hal Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9914
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
They are the same thing, except for some foolishness in Wisconsin.

For awhile, I was against this term "cable restraint" but upon further consideration I'm not so sure it is a bad idea. One might consider this to be similar to the terms "leghold" trap, and "foothold" trap. I insist on using the term foothold, because it is more descriptive of that device, and it is more politically acceptable to the non-trapping public - particularly given the past concern over animal's legs. So I don't want to appear to be too hypocritical in opposing the term "cable restraint".

However, for the Wisconsin DNR to use the term "snare" and "cable restraint" both in promulgating their regulations is just one more example of the silliness with which typifies this project. I don't know if these people were trying to be cute or cleaver, but they achieved neither. What they have done, however, is confuse the trappers, the very people they were supposed to be "helping".

Let's turn this back around and use the foothold/leghold terminology. Let's write a regulation that says "legholds" can only be used in water at a lethal set, but "footholds" can be used on dry land in a restraining set. Are you beginning to see the siliness in this? Oh sure, we could (and many places do) limit the size of a foothold trap that can be used on land, but if you use a bigger trap in the water it's still the same kind of trap!

Yes, the "cable restraint" has different requirements in these regulations but it's still a snare!! And, you give me one of these Wisconsin "snares", and a clear non-entanglement situation in which to set it, and presto-chango I'll make it into a cable restraint without doing a darn thing to it!

So all this cable restraint/snare hokum has done, is confuse people. One term or the other would be fine, not both.

Here is the bottom line, a foothold trap can be used in a lethal manner (in a drowning set) or it can be used as a restraining device - so can a snare. A "cable restraint" is supposed to be a non-lethal snare.

(Footnote: These Wisconsin regulations are about as much fun as syphilis. And in my opinion are worthy of being contained in a like manner.)

frown -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#10692 - 03/22/06 09:24 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Hal Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9914
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Hold on!

As silly as this bull$hit is, there really is a difference in Wisconsin regulations between what they define as a "snare" and what they define as a "cable" restraint - even though they are both snares by anyone else's definition. You'll have to figure out the regulations before you decide what configuration of snares to by or what configuration of snares you can use. Don't get yourself in trouble.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#10693 - 03/22/06 10:39 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
avidhunter Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Traverse City, Michigan
(Footnote: These Wisconsin regulations are about as much fun as syphilis. And in my opinion are worthy of being contained in a like manner.)

-- Hal smile

Hal, Thats too funny. Even if I don't know how much fun it is to have syphilis. wink laugh JJ

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#10694 - 03/22/06 11:32 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
The fun of syphilis is in the getting. Remember, you get syphilis from the waitress but not from the food she serves!

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#10695 - 03/23/06 08:58 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Mike McChurin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 497
Loc: NE Oklahoma
I think we have found a sore spot with Hal.

Hal, weren't you asked to help design the regs for "snaring" in WI? If I remember correctly they asked for your input and then totally ignored it.

Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Mike

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#10696 - 03/24/06 07:14 AM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3653
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
Lets keep it on track.This is about cable restraints not the author's of Wisconsin's regulations.
I have had trouble useing the term "cable restraint" not because it is a improper term.It isn't.Actually it is accurately descriptive for a non-lethal snare and may be more acceptable to non trappers than "snare",not carrying the negative connotations that the word "snare does for the general public.
My problem with "cable restraints" is the false impression implied by those that developed them that they are something superior than a non- lethal snare

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#10697 - 03/24/06 09:08 AM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Hal Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9914
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
For the record: They asked if I would "participate", and they had a copy of the "Ohio Snaring Guide" with I compiled and edited. I think they got some ideas from the Ohio Snaring Guide. As far as input, I personally wasn't asked for any, after the initial inquiry. I think I got in the credits because of the "Ohio Snaring Guide".

As far as "cable restraints" and the general public, I don't think that is where the all the "politics" is aimed. The general public is not necessarily opposed to snares. Witness Florida and New Jersey where snares are legal after some (or most in the case of Florida) of the other traps have been outlawed. I think this is aimed directly at houndsmen, who in general are opposed to snares, under the false impression that snares are still tied to bent-over saplings and will choke all their dogs.

But Ric has hit the nail right on the head. Using the term "cable restraint" can leave everybody, including trappers, with the impression that these devices are somehow fool proof. The emphasis should always be on entanglement, not the device. You give me a cable restraint, and a barbwire fence, and I can choke down darn near anything that gets in that "cable restraint". Conversely, as I said above I can take one of their so called "snares" set it in a non-entanglement situation, and use it to restrain the animal until I get there and decide its fate.

It gets even sillier when you consider that this set of regulations, prohibits setting "cable restraints" (non-lethal snare) in entanglement situations. Why not just prohibit setting "snares" in entanglement situations? That will give you a non-lethal snare too. Do you see how this terminology B.S. is misleading, and putting the cart ahead of the horse? And/or do you see how these regulations were promulgated by folks without an adequate knowledge of what they were doing?

Here's another one -- a maximum loop stop. These snares (I mean cable restraints) are required to have a maximum loop stop, an extra piece of hardware on the cable and extra expense to the trapper. Now… watch closely… I'm about to perform a magic trick…l "You cannot… set a snare with a loop diameter of more than 15 inches". That's taken directly from Ohio regulations, no stop required. DUH!!!

Yes, this is a sore spot with me. One of my goals has always been to help trappers make educated and informed decisions about their tools and techniques. And also to advocate that trappers be treated as something greater than second class sportsmen. Regulations like these fly in the face of both of those precepts.

frown -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#10698 - 03/24/06 09:49 AM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
45/70 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 832
Loc: South Georgia, usA
Ric and Hal are both in the X-ring in their views on this subject. About all I can add is that somehow the term cable restraint is, among other things, intended to imply that there is a tool better than snares. It is a term that produces a smoke and mirrors environment. It is intended to confuse.

The snares that my pard and I use for coyote live work will not qualify as cable restraints under any of the several statutes I have read defining cable restraints. Yet, our snares, illegal under these cable restraint definitions, produce the same results -- better, if our percentage of lost coyotes is figured in.

Adios,
45/70,
RKBA !!!

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#10699 - 03/24/06 07:24 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
FLSH ETR Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 938
Loc: Cudahy, Wisconsin,USA
WI sure put the hammer down on regulating the cable restraint, compared to the snare, with regards to what you may not do. But, interestingly, the first no-no comes in the max. length of the cable. Snare=not exceed 5 feet. Cable restraint=not to exceed 7 feet. How come? confused Frank cool
_________________________
"I thought getting old would take longer."

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#10700 - 03/25/06 06:08 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
wabi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Southern Ohio (near Blue Creek...
I think of a "snare" as being a general term describing several types of devices using a loop of flexible material such as stranded cable (or string or thin wire) to capture animals. A "snare" can be set to be lethal or non-lethal and could also use a powering device to make them lethal, depending on the trapper's desired results and/or the legal requirements for the jurisdiction where they are set.
A "cable restraint" is a specific type of snare set to be non-lethal and to merely hold the animal until it is released or dispatched by the trapper.

Aparently, some states don't use the same descriptions. To me, saying "setting a snare" would compare to saying "driving a truck". Saying "setting a cable restraint" would be more like saying "driving a Ford Ranger". Just a more descriptive term to narrow down the choices.

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#10701 - 03/26/06 08:38 AM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Wabi, excellent example...very descriptive.

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#10702 - 03/28/06 05:36 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
In New Jersey we have what is called (by the state) a RETAINING SNARE
This gives the animal that gets cought in the RETAINING SNARE. The chorice of
1- Just sitting there.Like a dog on a leash
OR
2- comiting suicide by wraping him self up around what ever he can find.
It's all up the the animal !!!!

"IF" I had to obay the Cable Restraint laws that WI. and PA.have. (obay is the key word)
The FIRST thing I would do is. Call Asa Lenon, and get some privite instuctions on how to make a BLIND TRAIL SET in freezing and snow conditions.Useing a #4 Double Long Spring Leghold Trap

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#25378 - 10/17/17 12:26 PM Re: Snares vs. cable restraints [Re: Jim Ramsdell]
Archive Offline


Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 1116
Dated for search.

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