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#11449 - 08/11/06 07:58 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
nvbobcat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Nevada
If you want to spend some time instead of money to get pan tension to an old style longspring there are several things you can do. The first thing is to take as much wobble out of the pan as possible. I've used three ways to do this. Take a sledge hammer, lay the trap on heavy vise or on a piece of railroad tie on the concrete. Pound the cross hump on the side just enough to close it some and take the play out of the pan. A litle at a time. After you do a couple you will get a feel for this and be able to do it fairly fast. The second way is to slip 2-3 strands of tie wire thru the round part of the pan connection to the hump, and wrap these wires around the hump. (lynx-cat on trapperman shared that with us) The last way I have been doing it is to take 2 - 1/4 inch nuts and put one on each side of the pan stem and weld them to the hump, slightly to the bottom inside. This will take most of the wobble out of the pan. If the nuts are to loose, you can squeeze them together with a large pair of channel locks. (this last way is my favorite) Then after you take out a lot of the pan wobble you can add pan tension by using a small triangle file and putting a notch in the pan and in the dog. These notches will fit together when the trap is set. This is called the "Miles trigger". It's detailed in his coyote trapping book. And there you have it! Essentially free and the more you do the faster it gets to do.

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#11450 - 08/13/06 12:05 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2028
Loc: WV
I have a couple traps with the Miles Instant Trigger, somewhere. The way my traps are "tuned", i really don't have much trouble with pan-wobble, if it moves, it's fired. (usually while i still have my fingers nearby). I've been thinking... The quickest, easiest, cheapest way, would be to set the trap and put a drop of Krazy-Glue on the notch and dog-end. laugh laugh

Seriously, I thought about using a piece of "closed-cell" foam under the end of the pan, opposite the dog. I played with one today, and bumped the pan=tension up above 2#. Also, thought about putting a 1/4" or 3/8" section of "garden-hose" under the pan, on the outside edge. It would only need to bend/squash 1/16" before the trap fired. Biggest problem I see is, the colder it gets, the stiffer/harder these items will become. And increase pan tension. One other thing, wonder what would happen if a person would wedge a piece of "wire-spring" (the same type of spring as in a shotgun's magazine) up under the pan? I see problems with all of these, but still thinking. smile

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#11451 - 08/14/06 11:41 AM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2028
Loc: WV
I've been thinking again. What I'm going to try and explain in a second, will make some of you say: DUH!

I've read Hal's post about the PIT system 3 or 4 times. Now, it all makes sense.

Up-front, I'm playing with a #3 B & L longspring. My #3 Victors are nearly identical and should work the same. Was thinking, if it's a hassel to move the pan's "pivot-point", why can't we move the notch? I used the bench-grinder to move the "notch" forward, about 1/4", from it's original point. (Putting the notch towards the center of the trap. Looking at the pans pivot-point, my notch is approximately at a 45* angle, nearer the center of the trap.) At first, I figured I'd need to "extend" the dog, but, all I needed to do was bend the "cross-frame" in 1/4" or so. Just like trying to level the pan. I don't have a "tension" tester, but it'll support a 20 ounce "pop" bottle full of water. (On my digital scales, a full bottle weighs 1.46 pounds.) I'm using the original pan, dog, and you should be able to "re-model" one in 5 minutes or less. Same principal as the PIT system. You guys tinker with that info, it'll work. Been thinking we'll call it the "Redsnow Method". cool

I did take a few pictures, not sure how to post pictures yet, if anyone would like to post them PM your e-mail. smile

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#11452 - 08/14/06 03:37 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9936
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Yes!

If there is enough shank on the pan, you can do exactly that.


If you cut the notch back to the blue dotted line, you would gain some positive pan tension.

I did that with the original pans on the Herters traps I talked about in the PIT thread. But I could only get 2 lbs of tension before I ran out of notch, and I wanted 4 lbs.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#11453 - 08/15/06 01:08 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2028
Loc: WV
Hal, your diagram above shows exactly how I modified my pans, better than my pictures would. I just finished the "rough-cut" on 13 #3's, it took me 12 minutes for the first 6 traps. I'll need to finish, and do the "touch-up" work with a file. Should only take a few strokes each. I grabbed the traps as I came to them in the shed, 3 were Victors and the rest B & L. I don't have any "spare" pans, so didn't want to mess them up. Not sure if you can go 4# tension or not? They do have another 1/4" or so of travel, before the "dog-eye" would be against the jaw. Not sure?

Honestly, I was thinking about the Herters in your PIT thread, then thought about my Newhouse traps. Noticed how you moved the "point of contact" closer to the pivot-point. . . to decrease tension. Then it clicked. S. Newhouse was years ahead of the rest of us. I have a #15 Newhouse/Kenwood (bear trap) here at work, an early one, hand=forged springs and all. Just looked at it last night, the "notch" is 15/16" past the pivot. I suspect the pan on that trap weighs 2#, or more? The info has been under our nose since 1880, glad it's finally out in the open.

Mr. Dobbins would be proud of this thread. smile

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#11454 - 08/31/06 10:11 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
smitty Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 75
Loc: Central Indiana
You can remove the pan, flatten the hump from the crossframe & weld-on new panposts. Weld the stock pan closed, redrill it & the posts for a proper-sized panbolt, and run as much....or as little tension as you want, without the wobble.


I'd designed & had punched, a few "conversion kits" for the #1.5 & #2 longs, but evidently couldn't make them cheap enough to be cost effective, even though they were basically the same price as PIT pans.

It involved drilling-out the 2 spotwelds under the crossframe, popping it (crossframe) off, and either welding, or bolting the new crossframe on, reusing the stock pan & dog.




Smitty

(Edit: Photos archived. -- Hal)

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#11455 - 09/02/06 12:43 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2028
Loc: WV
That's a good looking set-up. Shame they didn't come out stock with a pan-bolt. I'm still working on my stack of #3's, just cut the chains off, and adding swivels now. (by the way, you can modify #3 jumps the same way) I've tried to eliminate some of the "slop" in the pans by hammering the "hump", works some. I believe I'll try a "U" shaped piece of 10 or 12 gauge copper-wire, stuffed down one side of the pan and twisted tight under the "hump." That should help more, but don't think it's possible to get it to break like a guns-trigger. Without welding, and re-drilling the hole.
Now I'm having trouble getting them center-swiveled. I was planning to use 5 or 6 links of #2 or #3 straight-link machine chain, around the frame. You can't buy that size chain in this town. I could use a "cold-shut", but may try to use a link of 3/16" machine chain. Could cut it with the saw and spread the link over the frame, and then weld it closed. What would be the easiest/cheapest way to center-swivel them? smile

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#11456 - 09/02/06 02:56 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9936
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Once again, compliments of the Paws-I-Trip folks are these center locators. They aren't the cheapest way to go. But they are fast, and don't require welding. Just crimp the ears down.



And if you want to go whole-hog, there is a long yoked PIT swivel that can easily be used with the center locator. The long flat swivel lays down better under the trap, than does an ordinary swivel.



smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#11457 - 09/02/06 10:24 PM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
Paul Dobbins Offline
Member

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 119
Loc: Goldsboro, NC
I agree with Hal, its hard to beat the Paws-I-Trip pans to make the long springs into decent traps. They're quick and easy.

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#11458 - 09/03/06 08:15 AM Re: # 3 Long-Spring Modifications. ???
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Guys what about going with a j-hook inserted through the hole in the base(drill if necessary) and then using two-three links of chain and add another double(box) swivel. Now this strictly for traps shown here #1 1/2 longspring and #2 dbls. For the #3-4 dbls traps used for larger animals I advocate base plate or use Paws-I-Trip like mentioned.

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