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#13589 - 03/20/09 08:06 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
jackson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 278
Loc: missouri
Bring back the dogs to control wild animals. I'm old enough to remember when folks ran dogs every day during the year. When Missouri enforced the no-dog rule during gun season and cracked down on feral dogs, the deer herd shot up[no pun] out of sight. Early Americans used dogs to dig out furbearers, hunted and killed them all year. Not likely nowadays because of Animal Rights, but I never thought Missouri would put a, "shoot on site" order to kill out feral hogs, this will cease when some yay-hoo shoots uncle Rube's pigs. smile

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#13590 - 03/20/09 09:51 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
Ray M Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/07/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Nevada
I personnaly believe that an over abundance of animals is an excellent opportunity to get the younger generation more involved with the outdoors, i think that there are becoming less and less outdoorsman every generation. so if everyone had a way to take their kids, grandkids, nephews ect. out hunting or trapping these over abundant animals, maybe it would help the animals as well as our future outdoorsman numbers.
No dought this will not thin the numbers down to where they may need to be but increasing the numbers of animals allowed to be taken along with bounties and our kids help, it may be enough to make a dent in the issue.

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#13591 - 03/20/09 11:41 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
Ldsoldier Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 917
Loc: Raleigh, NC
I've just got a couple of comments. First off, I agree with Dusty. Policy-making should be left to the trained professionals, NOT to politicians that know nothing about biology and wildlife.

Jackson and Half brought up bounties. Bounties are just not effective. They're too easily manipulated, abused, and almost always underfunded. They just don't work.

Control should be given first to the sportsmen. This is for several reasons. Number one, because that way it doesn't cost the government a dime. In fact, they make money off of it. Most DNRs are largely funded by the sales of hunting/fishing/trapping licenses. Here in N.C., the NCWRC receives approximately 1/3 of its budget from the General Fund.

Second, as has already been pointed out, these Sportsmen now have a vested interest in these wildlife. They have more of a desire to keep the ecosystem balanced. With balance, everything prospers. Its when it starts getting lopsided that you have problems.

Third, in most places, the government just could not afford to pay the salaries and equipment costs for full time "wildlife management" positions. You ask any of the USDA beaver trappers down here how busy they are. They can't keep up. And I don't have to tell anybody about the financial fiasco our nation is currently in. The money just ain't there.

We also need to apply common sense. The deer management system for Cleveland, OH will not necessarily be the same as the system for Pender County, NC. This is where the "professionals" come in. Let people that know the area, and know the numbers make the decisions. Personally, I think to insinuate somebody's gonna shoot 5 does before they shoot a buck is silly. Most people won't shoot 5 deer all season, even down here where our deer season spans 4 months (not including the urban archery season). Giving a certain quota, sure. But lets keep it realistic.

Finally, probably the most important part of a good wildlife management plan would have to be education. Not only educating the "wildlife managers," (hunters, trappers, etc...), but educating the public.

However much I love the principles taught by the cartoons my two year old daughter watches, I cringe to see animals portrayed as humans, acting completely different than they would in the wild. In one of his recent articles in T&PC, Hal speaks of a woman that is not worried about a dairy strike because her milk "comes from the grocery store." While I think all that read that article got a good chuckle, there is a sad undertone of reality there. How many of our children today grow up thinking food comes from Walmart and clothes come from Target or Belks. I take every opportunity I have to go into a classroom, to show somebody a trap, to take in a pelt.

These are things that we all take for granted, most of us grew up in the outdoors. Think about it, how many kids do you know can drive a tractor? Now, how many of your grandparents peers could drive a tractor before they could drive a car? Sorry, I did not mean for this to go this long. Oh, Dusty, I'd vote for ya. Just give me a Cabinet spot laugh

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#13592 - 03/23/09 03:32 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
M. Bennett Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
Hal, I understand and agree about bounty systems being ineffective historically. These were fixed price bounties and therefore when the populations reached a certain low level efforts declined.
To anyone's knowledge has a sliding scale bounty system ever been tried and to what end?

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#13593 - 03/23/09 04:44 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 10100
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
That's an interesting idea, and it might work if you were talking about really eradicating some kind of animal via a constantly increasing bounty. But, I don't think anybody, including me, necessarily wants to see any of these animal extirpated again. So when you eventually lower the bounty, people are going to quit the pursuit, just as they do today when fur prices drop. Then the population will build back up, and they'll have to raise the bounty again, and pretty soon they'll figure out an average, we'll have talked ourselves around in a circle.

Besides this, you still have the problem of funding. Who's money are we going to spend? The tax payers, I reckon. And when I think about that, I get dragged back down the road that: If, the taxpayers are going to invest their money, they may choose instead to simply hire "highly trained professionals" rather than invest in something as haphazard as a bounty system.

Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#13594 - 03/23/09 05:05 PM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
M. Bennett Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
The Feds are spending $1,000,000.00 ++++ a year here to "eradicate" nutria.

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#13595 - 03/24/09 01:33 AM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
The MD nutria efforts are interesting and apparently very effective. I'd call this a model for proper management: They've identified a problem (coastal damage, NOT the mere presence or even abundance of nutria), formulated a plan, tested the plan in a refuge, a somewhat controlled environment, and are now implementing it in a broader area. Kudos to them.

The costs seem reasonable to me. $1M/yr is pretty low when we're talking about coastal erosion.

It's also interesting that private land access seems to be a significant barrier to success. The last thing you want to do in a project like this is leave refugia behind.

Could they do it better with a bounty system? Perhaps. Would local trappers (who seem to be doing the actual trapping anyway) have more or less access to that problematic private land if not under the guises of USFWS/MD DNR? Would a bunch of kids running around catching a nutria or two help or hinder progress? Would the public, obviously willing to fund "professionals," also be willing to fund a bounty system?

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#13596 - 03/24/09 05:32 AM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
M. Bennett Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 19
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
Dusty...we need to talk privately. mad

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#13597 - 03/24/09 06:26 AM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
bblwi Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 288
Loc: Kiel, WI
Population control is a reactive way of lowering a wildlife population. The population attained higher numbers and more expansive range due to many factors of which preferable habitat would be number one in my opinion. We are creating more good habitat for several species, such as deer, coon, opossum, mnay rodents (WI examples) and thus we also create food sources for predators with higher recruitment levels in with their young.

Controling habitat creation is probably more expensive and less likely an option than harvest with our modern societal and cultural goals and backgrounds.
Who will be granted the opportunity for harvest is an on going scientific and now political and social issue. Auto insurance firms lobby for reduced deer numbers, sportsmen's groups lobby for more deer to hunt and farmers beg for damage control monies or permits or both. Most other citizens really don't want to be involved much but do enjoy wildlife until they have incidents.
The problem with incidents on an individual basis is that they are not the result of huge increases in numbers typically but the result of an individual in the wrong place at the wrong time. We also have an ever increasing amount of man made sanctuaries if you will that are also prime habitat. Couple that with fewer harvesters and soon to be many less millions of dollars avaiable for public paid control we probably will see increases in populations and incidents. We also may see more disease and other control mechanisms become more common.

Harvest alone typically does not drop numbers below biological carrying capacities. Add to that social carrying capacities that want further reductions in prime habitat areas and populations are almost always problematic.

Bryce

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#13598 - 03/24/09 06:32 AM Re: Wildlife Management -- New Solutions
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
Just how many Nutria did that 1 millom dollars catch ?
If I heard right it cost about 1500 dollars per Nutria.
You put a $500.00 bounty on Nutria and you would get the job done faster and cheeper.
Just another Goverment waste of money.

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