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#14079 - 10/30/06 04:28 PM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
WayneAmerica Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 56
Loc: Nebraska
I spoke with a Conservation Officer for Nebraska Games and Parks this afternoon about the issue of lethal injection. I was told it would be considered an act of "cruelty," and falls under the law containing the following wording... cannot commit cruelty to a captured wild animal. The use of a .22 or a club do not constitute "cruelty," and were his suggested methods.

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#14080 - 10/30/06 05:08 PM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Ten Shot sent me the "2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia". I've archived it as a .pdf file, and you can link to it here:

2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia

It's an interesting read, and it does specifically list acetone as an objectionable euthanizing agent. However right below that, is says:

"Drowning is not a means of euthanasia and is inhumane."

It is clearly established than we already find our self at odds with the AVMA. So I'm not quite ready to reject acetone as a euthanizing agent, just on their say so. If I don't think the few minutes it takes to drown a critter is inhumane, then I'm not willing to concede that killing them in under minute with acetone is either.

Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#14081 - 10/30/06 08:39 PM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
trapper from pa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 15
Loc: PA
In PA the only lawful way to dispatch a trapped animal is to shoot it. Although clubbing, cervical dislocating, and sufficating are common practice, they are by the letter of the law as illegal here as injecting. Just a FYI for all in PA.

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#14082 - 10/30/06 08:42 PM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
NEA Trapper Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 74
Loc: arkansas
jwr, your welcome. I hate that we can't use this in Arkansas. This was the means I was intending to use to dispatch skunks.
Mark

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#14083 - 10/31/06 12:36 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
animalpest Offline
Member+

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Western Australia
Perhaps my first post is still relevant to the conversation here regarding "humane" killing. That is, whatever method is used should be the most humane, it should be ethical, cause least suffering, be legal etc. I agree with Hal in that the jury is out at the moment on acetone and intentioanlly drowning trapped animals is not acceptable by most authorities when a suitable more-humane method is available.
Folks, you should always strive for the best means of killing animals, not the most convienient.
Mike

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#14084 - 10/31/06 07:57 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
And for a second time in this discussion I'm going to take you to task on that.

There is a real danger in letting someone, or some entity, define the "best" of anything, as in the "most" humane. Even the AVMA document does not conclude that any particular method they suggest is the "most" humane. So how do you propose to define the level of humanity in trappers dispatch methods? If you are going to promote the use of the "most" humane method, can you provide us with a list of methods, rated by their level of humane value, from which we can choose?

Again, hunters and trappers fall outside the realm of professions and industries to whom standards are applied (thank goodness). Note that previously Wackyquacker warned to be alert for "animal cruelty" legislation which could include, or I should say preclude, acceptable or unacceptable methods of dispatch that would encompass hunters and trappers. Again, I'll use the analogy of bow hunting. Anybody really think an arrow is going to be an acceptable method of dispatch, except in your hunting guide?

A method of dispatch that renders an animal dead inside a few minutes, and there are several including drowning, is acceptable to me. It is also humane by my personal standards. So, why should a trapper not choose among the most convenient of these? Where is the logic in utilizing a less convenient method?

quest -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#14085 - 10/31/06 09:07 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
WayneAmerica Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 56
Loc: Nebraska
I believe my post, using the wording "lethal injection," was a bit mis-leading and I wanted to clear that up. The only issue I was referring to, in regards to "lethal injection," was the injection of acetone, or any other chemical, into a "captured wild animal."

I'd also like to respond a little to the most recent entry by Hal. I stood by my Dad two weeks ago while he put his lab/husky mix down... two injections, the first, a powerful anesthetic, the second, shutting down her vitals. In my opinion, that was "humane." It sure didn't seem like there was pain and/or suffering at that moment, just a peaceful exit. In my opinion, there is no comparison injecting acetone, or any other volatile chemical, into the chest cavity of an animal to a clinically controlled method, like the one I just explained. Therefore, I won't use that particular method.

At this point in time, the "most humane method" is SUBJECTIVE, and will be until such time as we have someone or something tell us A, B, & C, not D... and I agree with Hal, I would much rather, in fact, I hope to heck, it is left up to us, trappers or hunters alike.

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#14086 - 10/31/06 09:39 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
Ten Shot Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Mauston, Wisconsin
I'll add a little to this discussion. I agree that the most convenient method should be used to dispatch an animal. With that I would also say the most comfortable method. And it all boils down to respecting the animals that we trap. If you are using a method that you are most comfortable with chances are the dispatch will be quick and "humane".

I agree with Wayne America in that humane is subjective. The AVMA report addresses the fact that trappers are (and I'm paraphrasing here)dispatching animals under a wide variety of conditions and that the individual should use the method that is appropriate for the situation.

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#14087 - 10/31/06 09:47 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Wayne said: "there is no comparison injecting acetone,"

Should we take this to mean that your experience in injecting acetone has been less than satisfactory? And are we to understand that your Dad is a vet or otherwise licensed to use these chemicals?

I really am soliciting opinions from folks who have had negative experiences using this method.

Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#14088 - 10/31/06 10:46 AM Re: Non-standard Dispatch Methods - Lethal Injection
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
Euthanasia and killing wild animals or slaughter animals might best be viewed from different vantages. Euthanasia of family pets is a subject governed much more by anthropomorphisms than reality. Slaughter, is a step removed. Both however are in controlled situations and thereby allow / require more "apparent " compassion.

Killing wild animals takes place in the wild and in largely uncontrolled situations. This difference alone predicts very different levels of what is acceptable.

As an example of my thoughts, delivery of a 22 caliber slug to the brain is fast, final and without pain (as best as we can know). Why then don't veterinarians just shoot your dog for you? It is in poor taste, there are alternate and less "gruesome" options, safety; maybe it is illegal to discharge a firearm in the location of the vet's office. No, the main reason is that we view our pets as members of our families. We want for them what we would want for ourselves; anthropomorphic attitudes.

Society is largely removed from having to deal with the daily realities of life. As hunters, trappers, even fisherman, our perception of death and killing is different. Not evil or bad or of lower moral fiber, just different. The issue then is to help others understand with clarity what we "know". To some extent I think it foolish to attempt to reconcile euthanasia with humane dispatch of wildlife. However, when we begin to use syringes instead of guns, bows and stunning blows this distinction is more difficult to maintain.

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