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#16744 - 04/04/06 08:28 PM Politically Correct Terminology?
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
In regards to the recent topics of cable restraints....I thought it would be appropiate for all us trappers to now regard foothold traps as paw restraining devices. I mean look what cable restraints have done for Michigan?
The idea behind the different wording was to clear the air of the term SNARE. Then the public would have a new awakening on aircraft cable devices. Did or does the rewording of trapping related terminology make a difference to the public and their acceptance of what we do? The jury is still out. But if you consider how much trapping info is available via the internet...I really doubt it.
Oh by the way I'm still having a difficult time coming up with a Politically Correct name for the Bodygripping trap. Body squeezer...naw. How about spine readjuster? Naw...

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#16745 - 04/04/06 09:11 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
jwr Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 199
Loc: ark
Youre bored aint ya.

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#16746 - 04/05/06 09:09 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
bobkat Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 113
Loc: Ruckersville, Va
Mike, What about animal detaining gate? A critter expiration date machine? A politically correct "fat chance" becomes an "obese opportunity".

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#16747 - 04/05/06 09:28 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9924
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Actually, I touched on this in one of the other threads.

We have already moved into this arena. If you remember foothold traps were, and still are, referred to as "leghold" traps in some instances. I think foothold is a good term, and probably more descriptive than leghold, which is one reason why I am fairly adamant about using that term here on the boards. (You'll note that this is also the term used in BMPs). This term also has a politically correct basis, in that we avoid "perceived" images of traps with a huge jaw spread that catch animals halfway to the shoulder.

Frankly, I was opposed to the term "cable restraint" when I first heard it. But, it may have some merit. It is descriptive of the device. Also, "snares" do suffer from the same perceptions as "leghold" traps. The term "snare" often conjures up the notion of a noose tied to a bent-over pole that when activated is going to jerk an animal off its feet, and hang it like a criminal in the town square.

I really don't know how much the "general public" harbors this notion. I really suspect not a whole lot because Florida and New Jersey didn't bother to ban Snares when they banned other types of traps. (However, since that time it seems like every state that has lost its traps has lost its snares too.) Some of the major opposition to getting snares reintroduced, has come from houndsmen. These folks do have about a half a notion of what snares are, and they're the ones who envision the snare as a strictly lethal device.

And in truth, the perception of the snare as a strictly lethal device does not stop with houndsmen. Really, the concept of non-lethal snaring was/is foreign to many trappers. Look right here on this board. We have had trappers on here who were incredulous that folks would set snares in a non-lethal manner. So if trappers themselves can't conceive of non-lethal snares, how are we going to convince everyone else?

There is another element of this in the "relaxing lock" that we use on these non-lethal snares/cable restraints. Anybody who has any more than passing experience with snares, knows that there is more "political correctness" in a relaxing lock than there is real life application or expectations.

The bottom line here? We do exercise our privilege to trap at the behest of the general public, and to some extent our fellow sportsmen. Words mean a lot. As much as we may find it distasteful, some terms actually do present a more appealing picture. It may be more palatable if we think of these terms as "politically advantageous" rather than politically correct.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#16748 - 04/05/06 01:01 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I wonder how one would define "politically advantageous"...the politically correct way to say politically correct; a Halism for politically correct. I do like it though even if it is the best example of double double talk I've seen recently.

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#16749 - 04/05/06 02:18 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
littleguns Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Jay, Maine
ad·van·ta·geous adj. Affording advantage; See beneficial.
See Synonyms at beneficial. adj. 1. Producing or promoting a favorable result;
SYNONYMS: beneficial, profitable, advantageous. These adjectives apply to what promotes benefit or gain.
In our case we benifit from the terminology promoting a better system.
We profit by what is a good system.
So it gives us the advantage.
As trapers we are suposed to know what we are talking about. So if we do and the anti's don't
there lies the advantage.
I hope I didn't confuse anyone??

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#16750 - 04/05/06 02:29 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
ThumbStateTrapper Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Michigan's Thumb
Hey Mike,
How about chiropractic restaint device? lol

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#16751 - 04/05/06 03:40 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3659
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
"we benifit from the terminoligy promoteing a better system"

Well I guess that is the problem as far as I'm concerned.I haven't read one cable restraint rule that describes a better system

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#16752 - 04/05/06 03:49 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9924
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
It's the thought that counts.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#16753 - 04/05/06 08:11 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
wabi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Southern Ohio (near Blue Creek...
I think as trappers most of us think of the same devices whether we say snare or cable restraint , or leghold or foothold trap. But the general public may have a much different picture in their mind when we use these terms. I'd guess cable restraint and foothold trap would be less likely to cause thoughts of animal abuse.
Perhaps we should try to use the description that causes the least controversy.

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#16754 - 04/05/06 08:12 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
LOL! on some of those terminologies for traps.
Hal hit the nail as did Ric and others...we are using kinder gentler terms to appease the uneducated public....BUT....I would change terminologies tommorrow IF it meant peolple would understand us better.

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#16755 - 04/06/06 06:50 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
littleguns Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Jay, Maine
The same people that down us will use a chocker chain to restrain there pet.
confused
I think cable restraint and foot hold will be the best terminology we will be able to use.
That and educate the public to low impact traping.

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#16756 - 04/06/06 07:33 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Jim Ramsdell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Fairfield, Maine
If we give an inch won't they (anti's, general public) take a mile?? If this keeps up, we'll go the way of the fishermen, and we'll all have to practice "catch & release" trapping. We should stick to our guns and be proud of what we do, no matter what they care to call our equipment. Imagine this for a moment.....All mouse trap manufactuers will stop making the traditional spring loaded trap and people will have to learn how to capture them using a "cable restraint" which could be the industry standard if this crap keeps up. STAND FIRM!! "I trap, therefore, I am a Trapper!!"

Jim

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#16757 - 04/06/06 08:16 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
I got to stay out of this---Or get banned----

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#16758 - 04/06/06 10:58 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
bobkat Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 113
Loc: Ruckersville, Va
Can you imagine trying to trap beaver with a 4x4 sheet of glue board? Thats where mouse trapping has gone.

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#16759 - 04/06/06 03:26 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Talachulitna Jim Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 317
Loc: Anchorage, AK
Sigh. I'm usually a fan of direct communication and not fond of euphenisms.

But politics and advocacy are a different realm. Studies of voters and jurors show that people react differently to different words that really mean the same thing.

Jim

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#16760 - 04/06/06 07:07 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
FLSH ETR Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 941
Loc: Cudahy, Wisconsin,USA
T.J.
You sure drilled this one! Words are everything. If y'all don't agree, just take this simple test. Picture, if you will, my little get away in northern WI. First, I'll describe it as a 'cabin'. Got a good pic of it? Now, let me tell you it's a 'cottage'. Wow! See a little different building? Now, for the real pic.It's a 'shack'. Can you hear the tar paper blowin' in the breeze? Words! Between us and the public, it's the only tool we got. Let's use it wisely. Frank. cool
_________________________
"I thought getting old would take longer."

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#16761 - 04/06/06 08:20 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Good points guys. Newt are you saying that these points don't have any merit or like all of us you are just frustrated to he77?
Me, I would refer to a snare as a "chiropractic restraint device" (I loved that one)or anything else IF it would get OUR STATE to allow us to use it. YES it is jumping through hoops...it sucks but its better than not having it.

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#16762 - 04/07/06 08:50 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9924
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Newt wants to rant and rave and tell them all to kiss his donkey. He wants to voice the frustration that we all feel. But please note, he doesn't. And I very much appreciate that.

I have said a thousand times… we are granted the privilege to trap by the rest of society. We bear no special status. Yes we do provide a public service in that we play a key role in wildlife management. We also play a role in utilizing a renewable natural resource that would otherwise go to waste. There are a number of other points that we might make in convincing the general public to allow us to maintain our privileges.

An "in-your-face" attitude will get us nowhere. It is, in fact, counter productive. That is why I appreciate that even though many trappers are frustrated to the top of their hat, they do maintain their decorum in public.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#16763 - 04/10/06 06:54 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
grayfox Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Northern New York
Quote:
I have said a thousand times… we are granted the privilege to trap by the rest of society. We bear no special status.
Better words could not have been spoken!

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#16764 - 04/10/06 09:09 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Jtrapper Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/01
Posts: 354
Loc: Eldridge, Alabama
I think trapper's like the term 'snare' cause it's easier to spell, lol.

Notice I didn't attempt to say that 'other word'.

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#16765 - 04/15/06 12:52 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
nelacres Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Vermont
As far as trapping goes, we are capable of catch and release if we want to. I am sure some of us, myself included have released an unintended catch.
Mouse glue boards, it "must" be more humane to have a mouse get stuck and starve to death than to have it wacked in the back of the head and killed instantly. When I die I want to starve to death no fast end of life for me. :p
Haven't thought of something polictcaly correct term for conibears yet. confused

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#16766 - 04/15/06 01:27 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9924
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
How about just thinking of the correct term for that type of trap, political or not. "Conibear®" is a registered trademark of Oneida Victor. There are many other companies that make bodygrip traps.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#16767 - 04/17/06 01:52 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Bryce Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Manitowoc CO WI
We have cable restraints now in WI. I do not use them as of yet, due to the regulations and the time that it will take me to learn that new device.
However,
There are many that really are upset with WI because of the cable restraint issue and the research that was done. Many long term snaring states now blame us for their problems with snares and snaring. Well if that is what you want and need to do knock yourself out. If your state has had snares for 100 years or forever and research done 1,000 miles away causes your state game laws to change, either the laws were wrong or the trappers and snare people did not take the time to keep their agencies and politicians upt to speed that the tools they use were the BMPS for their wildife management. WI did what they thought was in their best interest to be able to get the use of cable restraints to trappers in WI. That goal was accomplished such as it is in the eyes of many.
Also due to that successful research and study now cable restraints are available to many more trappers in many states and others nearly so within the last 2-4 years. Up until that time newly created tool opportunities in most states had been stagnant for decades.
This whole cable restraint issue is yet another example of the limited amount of trapper data there is out there to support our industry and increasing our harvest options in those states that have limitations.
Cable restraints may be a bad word to many trappers but for some it defines increased opportunity and not lost opportunity.
Down the road as the results of our seasons progress there may be real opportunities to review current regulations and limitations and they can be changed to best serve the harvesters and manage the wildlife.

Bryce

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#16768 - 04/18/06 03:57 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9924
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
"…newly created tool opportunities in most states had been stagnant for decades."

Do your research. Ohio got snares, with very few restrictions in 1996. West Virginia got them shortly thereafter based on Ohio law. Michigan got them next, but subsequently had the legs kicked out from under them by their own DNR.

You should also note that in Ohio the initiative was undertaken by trappers. Specifically, the Ohio State Trappers Association. But, I don't remember anybody from the WI trappers association contacting the OSTA about snaring. It's quite possible we may have been able to help -- had Wisconsin trappers taken the initiative.

In Wisconsin the initiative was not undertaken by trappers. The initiative was undertaken by DOW personnel who lacked a fundamental knowledge of snares and snaring. The regulations, as promulgated, reflect this lack of knowledge. Where was the WI trappers association in all this. What was their input?

"WI did what they thought was in their best interest to be able to get the use of cable restraints to trappers in WI."

Yes, but I just can't envision anyone exhibiting pride in the outcome.

frown -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#16769 - 04/19/06 09:41 AM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
bblwi Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 288
Loc: Kiel, WI
Hal,
Just wanted to let you know I have read your post. I will review the WTA history involvement from the get go with Rick and also John Olsen and some of the original research cable restraint users. I will then post the chronological order of who was involved, when and as you state trappers were not involved correctly or early. I am and always was under the impression the WTA was actively involved in the Cable restraint initiative from the beginning. It will take some time to receive information from those involved and I will post my findings when I have that completed.
My hope in posting was not to continue to wedge trappers apart nor help others become more creative in what to call a snare but I approached the issue incorrectly. It seems that an issue such as this would have been a good one for a regional group such as the Midwest Regional of the NTA or FTA to be a part of and or heavily involved with.

Bryce

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#16770 - 04/19/06 05:49 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Bryce, the cable restraint/snare issue has been discussed...and in detail at at least at one regional meeting. John Olsen discussed it in detail.

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#16771 - 04/19/06 07:44 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
bblwi Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 288
Loc: Kiel, WI
Mike I am aware of that discussion. What I want to find out is information that will tell the chronological time frame and who initiated the cable restraint program. Hal's post indicates the WTA was not involved or not effective. That is what I need to find out.

Bryce

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#16772 - 04/23/06 07:48 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology?
FLSH ETR Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 941
Loc: Cudahy, Wisconsin,USA
I just discovered that poor public notions about trapping can be disspelled by show and tell! My job takes me to several townships, where I share my trapping exploites with the ladies who hold office positions there. Telling them what I do, without going into descript detail, still gets some wrinkled noses and some 'eewwws'. But I just got my beaver hides back from USA Foxx and Furs, so I decided to show those women what the 'raw material' looks like. Soft and silky, I got nothing but 'wows' and 'awesome's from them. I'm fixing to make a vest out of them, and all the ladies can't wait to see the final product. All of a sudden, trapping ain't all bad after all!! Just thought y'all would like to know that. Frank. cool
_________________________
"I thought getting old would take longer."

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#25405 - 10/17/17 12:35 PM Re: Politically Correct Terminology? [Re: Mike Marchewka]
Archive Offline


Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 1116
Dated for search.

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