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#16995 - 02/28/06 05:24 PM BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Care to share the evaluation from your perspective as the difference in the BMP's on canines and cats pertaning to the chain/trap attachment point ?

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#16996 - 02/28/06 05:59 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
To the best of my knowledge, a BMP for cats has yet to be promulgated.

But, I will share this -- chains and/or fastening systems were not evaluated as part of the BMP study so far. And I don’t expect it in the future.

However, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.

wink -- Hal
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#16997 - 02/28/06 06:01 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Thank you and next topic.......

what is the hoopala on center swivelin for if its not BMP based ?

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#16998 - 03/01/06 09:41 AM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
You avoided the comments I asked for. frown

I fear that far too many trappers get the cart ahead of the horse on these BMPs. BMPs are not responsible for research and development. In fact, they are precluded from doing R&D work. (Too bad in my opinion.) The BMPs are undertaken to "…identify techniques and traps that address the welfare of trapped animals…" (The bolding is mine.)

The key word here is "identify". The vast majority of improvements to traps and techniques, in all aspects including animal welfare, have come at the initiative and through the efforts of trappers. We as trappers are the ones who have always been responsible for improved animal welfare -- not the government, not the manufacturers -- the trappers!

So, if there is going to be continued improvement in animal welfare, trappers are going to have to come up with it so the government can "identify" it. If it ain't there, you can't identify it.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like fastening systems are under scrutiny. So, we are on our own here. Some folks, myself included, think that center swiveling leads to improved animal welfare.

I'll ask again, what are your thoughts on that?

smile -- Hal
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Endeavor to persevere.

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#16999 - 03/01/06 03:37 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Some folks, myself included, think that center swiveling leads to improved animal welfare.


Isnt this case and point of the BMP process as a whole ?

I find it odd that if any certain trap would be tested for physical damage to the animal either from self infliction or trap inflicted without looking at the trap/ chain attachment point.

I do not have alot of experience w/ coyotes, so I will leave them out. My red fox trapping to any extent goes back years ago before I used center swiveled traps......hence I have to leave them out also because of a lack of comparison.

Grey fox are different, they are just fighters to the end . In my experience with them, traps w/ center swiveling help a considerable bit. I have noticed a vast difference between the two points of attachment with grey fox. Not so w/ cats tho, while the secondary damage may be there , the external show no difference.

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#17000 - 03/02/06 05:19 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Come on Hal...........feedback ?

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#17001 - 03/02/06 05:52 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Feedback on what?

They don't have a cat bmp yet, and frankly I'm not so deeply steeped in this to know whether one is planned for the near future or how far down the road -- if ever -- if this thing don't run out of steam and/or funds.

So far, trappers have been right on the money at guessing which traps and systems will pass muster for the animals that have been observed.

I'm gonna stick my neck out, right now, and guess that a 5-1/2" two coil trap and a 5" two coil trap, out of the box, would pass muster for bobcat.

Now, you tell me, from experience, how large could you go, using what kind of system, and still not see damage in cats? And how small could you go, and still hold them reliably? Would a 4.5", two coil, grab and hold enough cats to allow it to pass the efficiency criteria? What would you like to see tested in a cat BMP?


quest -- Hal
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#17002 - 03/02/06 06:40 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
Now, you tell me, from experience, how large could you go, using what kind of system, and still not see damage in cats? And how small could you go, and still hold them reliably? Would a 4.5", two coil, grab and hold enough cats to allow it to pass the efficiency criteria? What would you like to see tested in a cat BMP?

Dont be a stickler if ya ask someone to engage

As for cats, I see no ceiling in my state as far as jaw spread is concerned......I have cought 10 pound kittens w/ stock Bridger #3's as well as fully tricked traps also with not even a scratch on them. One cannot compare the cats cought verses the incidentals of grey fox that one must trap out before you can work on the cats....thats the problem !

As for the smaller traps.......holding a cat is easy, even my 2 toes, having a thrown foot is also common on the smallish traps. Small traps and cat trappin equates to lots of misses ......

To answer your question per cats? I would prefer a 6 inch trap myself, as far as the configuration of said trap, to me it makes no difference other than a smallish pan.

A 4.5 inch trap will hold a cat just as fine as a 6 inch one will...........you just wont miss as many.

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#17003 - 03/02/06 07:18 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
BTW.......this has gone off topic dont ya think ? Jaw spread does not have any thing to do w/ what the topic matter is or was ??? confused

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#17004 - 03/03/06 03:16 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Your original question was:

"Care to share the evaluation from your perspective as the difference in the BMP's on canines and cats pertaning to the chain/trap attachment point ?"

There is no BMP on cats. There is no evaluation of chain/trap attachment. If we don't go off topic -- we have nothing to talk about! smile smile

smile -- Hal
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