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#17005 - 03/03/06 03:44 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
Grey fox are different, they are just fighters to the end . In my experience with them, traps w/ center swiveling help a considerable bit. I have noticed a vast difference between the two points of attachment with grey fox. Not so w/ cats tho, while the secondary damage may be there , the external show no difference.
Read the above again concerning fox ......then go back to this..........

Quote:
Isnt this case and point of the BMP process as a whole ?

I find it odd that if any certain trap would be tested for physical damage to the animal either from self infliction or trap inflicted without looking at the trap/ chain attachment point.
You are the most knowledgable person I know on this BMP stuff..........I want to know why chain attachment was not used as part of the system of test to understand as you put it animal welfare

You may not know the reason , but Im sure you have a theory !!


You are worthless when you get home from Tennessee...... laugh Tell Joyce to quit acten like a teenager , or is it you ?? confused

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#17006 - 03/03/06 04:00 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Trapper Joe Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 41
Loc: New brunswick
How could the BMP process be allowed to run out of funds? I thought the USA signed a treaty with the EU to develop new trapping standards and that is what the BMP is about? If BMP is dropped will US furs be allowed in the EU? Canada and Russia signed a treaty with the EU along the same lines which goes into effect in 2007. When is the US/EU treaty supposed to take effect? confused

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#17007 - 03/03/06 05:11 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I should not have been so flippant. I don't think Congress is going to stop fund the BMP study.

As for this: "I thought the USA signed a treaty with the EU to develop new trapping standards and that is what the BMP is about?"

That's not entirely accurate. We are not developing standards. Standards are set and we are identifying traps that meet those standards.

For some of you who may not have history on this, the original EU demand was that North Americans completely abandon foothold traps and only use bodygrips. That was altered to be "or comply to human trapping standards."

We have determined that a number of common foothold traps, comply to humane trapping standards, for a number of animals. I strongly suspect that we will find some acceptable foothold traps that can be used on bobcats as well, when the time comes.

As for this fastening system thing. Fastening systems probably should be analyzed, maybe at a later date. For right now, we have some very standard traps, with very standard fastening systems, that are passing muster. While we could recommend improvements in some instances, they wouldn't necessarily need be made mandatory.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#17008 - 03/03/06 05:24 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
they wouldn't necessarily need be made mandatory.
That comment there tho, realizes the point made by many to the assumption that the BMP testing is for future law making and not just a degree of suggestion.

Which is fact and which is fallacy ? You just contradicted the whole thesis in which the BMP's were established .

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#17009 - 03/03/06 07:35 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I shouldn’t have use the term “mandatory”.

However, yes, there is always the possibility that this could be used in “law making”. But... How come nobody ever sees the other side of that coin???????

Suppose the Animal Equality Kooks come to take your trapping away in your
state? Now, you’ve got a scientific study that says trapping, and foot traps in particular are humane. So... they don’t make a law taking away your trapping.

In the end, it will ultimately be up to each state to regulate trapping – no different than it is now.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#17010 - 03/04/06 10:28 AM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
How come nobody ever sees the other side of that coin???????
I take it you cannot argue a point just for the sake of arguing......I always felt that discussions on any subject matter were educational, the beliefs wether for or against are a mute point as long as facts are presented.

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#17011 - 03/04/06 10:54 AM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Quote:
I take it you cannot argue a point just for the sake of arguing
How so? That's exactly what I'm doing.

Quote:
...wether for or against...
That, in fact, is the moot point. The BMPs are a reality -- in published form. Being for or against them, will not make them go away.

Again, how they may, or may not, be implemented will be up to the individual states. The only thing the Fed's have any say so in is migratory birds and endangered species. As far as trapping equipment -- that is up to the individual states to regulate.

That being the case, it distinctly behooves every state trapping association to develop a strong working relationship with their with their F&G department to see that fair regulations are maintained for the trappers of their state. I'm sure you will be bringing your own talents to bear in your home state of NC.

As for Ohio, I'm not much concerned about what will go on here. I don't believe there is any other trappers' association, anywhere else in the country, that can match OSTA for having influence with our DOW when it comes to trapping regulations.

Again, if you are concerned about these BMPs, get involved with your state trappers' association to insure a positive outcome.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#17012 - 03/04/06 12:33 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
was that so hard ? Geez, getting you to talk is like pullin teeth.......... Thank-You !

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#17013 - 03/08/06 06:56 PM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Heimbrock Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/01
Posts: 36
Loc: Ohio
RE:”Again, how they may, or may not, be implemented will be up to the individual states. The only thing the Fed's have any say so in is migratory birds and endangered species. As far as trapping equipment -- that is up to the individual states to regulate.

Sounds good.

However history suggests that hain’t how it works.

Remember the 55 mph speed limit?

The current sniff-a-glass-of-wine-blood-alcohol-threshold?

Or, the one that I find extremely amusing, the Law Schools and their Professors that just found out they are no different than state and local governments with regards to Uncle Sam tellin’ ‘em what in the ‘L they will and won’t do.

Remember the Golden Rule.

Ain’t nobody got more gold than Uncle Sam.

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#17014 - 03/09/06 08:02 AM Re: BMP - Chain/trap attachment
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Quoting Hal above: "there is always the possibility that this could be used in “law making”."

This potential is one very important reason why trappers should remain directly involved in this process.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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