Please observe our rules: No profanity. No flaming. No commercial messages. No personal messages please.

Trap Line Archives
 
Trap Care and Preparation Archives
 
Trap Line Home   Trap Line Forum   Trap Line Help   Trap Line Photo   Old Hollow Blog   Archives
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#18195 - 05/30/07 10:58 PM Re: Dye or Dip
Grampa Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Vermont
I guess we should also look at the why we use dip?

For a hundred plus years trappers used some kind of natural dye, That goes back to even before when wax began. Remember most early trappers were after beaver and the cleaning/dying process was part of the ritual care. Many times these early trappers would pull their traps from one area, take the time to dye them, and put them someplace else. Again this was part of their maintanance and night or down time was for work as they didn't have the distractions we do.

Today we have a couple options to keep our equiptment in top working order all season long with minimal work for the next season. So we can reboil/dye/wax traps during the season as needed. Or we can have enough traps put up where we always have a replacement trap for the one we pull for any reason be it dye/wax, adjustment, etc. Or we can use dip, a chemical mixed with other chemicals to do the job and layer it on thick enough it could deflect a 30-06 bullet and you sometimes need to unstick and readjust everything alover again after you're done.

We all trap for various reasons and there is a naturally traditional nature of trapping. I am one who enjoys that part of it, am willing to take the time to put up 500 plus traps even though I probrably won't have more than a hundred out at any given time and do so the traditional way.

I have also found my traps need a lot less cleaning work as dying & waxing takes much less summer prep than dipping. I like to start with a clean trap and I've seldom seen that easy with dipped traps.

Now before any devoted chemical fans get up set, I base a lot of this on the used traps I handle. I get a lot from guys who switched to dip at some point and never chemically cleaned the rust from their traps and never cleaned them much between seasons for that matter. So what I find is layer and layer of dip with the origional rust that was on the trap, which is not so little now. And because of the nature of dip, all the dirt is stuck in the dip.

So by the time I pay $2 or $3 for that wonderful Montgomery #3 dogless or the old Triumph Easy Set #4 and $1 for everything else, you wish I would pay you more. While I wish you took the time and gave your traps the care they desearve for all the work they do for you, so I wouldn't have to use gas soaks, acid baths, lye boils, and still have to scrub them down to get to a point where I can tag them, adjust them and dye and wax them.

Top
#18196 - 05/31/07 12:10 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Mike McChurin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 497
Loc: NE Oklahoma
My first season I started out with Stoe's Speed Dip. I was not satisfied with the results. The traps were sticky and tacky. However, I still caught critters using those traps. Yes, even a coyote and a fox.

Then for some reason or another I decided to go with the boil/dye/wax method. I soon got tired of boiling 2-3 times to remove all the old wax. Then trying to make sure the traps were rusty enough to take the dye and then waxing. Then making sure I cleaned all the wax from each dog and pan notch.

I was short on time this last year so I went back to Speed Dip. It was the same batch I had used from my first season back in 2001-2002. Some of the "white" gas had evaporated and I figured I would end up with a nasty gummy mess. So I "test-dipped" a half-dozen traps to see what would happen. Lo and behold, the dip was dry within 30 minutes and there was no tackiness at all. And the traps looked and worked great.

One of those "test" traps (a #3 Northwoods offset) took 2 coyotes last season. And I only trapped for 2 weeks. If I remember correctly the #2 Duke offset that took my other coyote was also dipped.

If done correctly dipped traps are every bit as effective as dyed/waxed traps. I will probably dip all my traps from now on.

Now some of you might be saying one season does not prove anything. However I still used a few dipped traps during the seasons I used dyed/waxed traps and there was NO DISCERNABLE difference.

This is only my experience and I in no way look down on fellows who dye/wax. But, dipping is for me since it is quick and effective.

Mike

Top
#18197 - 05/31/07 07:56 AM Re: Dye or Dip
NEbowhunter Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 574
Loc: Holdrege, Nebraska
I think everyone has their preferences and have made them work, but one of the main points grampa was trying to make is that you've dipped your traps and used them a season and loved it. you plan on it next year. now what is the easy way to get them clean so you can dip them again? that dip doesn't just flake off in a boil. she's on there, and now mixed with some rust and dirt. you can't just dip over the top of that. i've heard of guys using sand in a mixer to get the dip off.
i guess in my opinion its been proved that you can catch an animal in a dipped trap. don't think thats an argument. but there is alot of work to each way of treating a trap. which is more work and time consuming? when you dip a trap, you are still going to have to take the time to run a file through a night latch and dog to tune, just like you would with wax.

Top
#18198 - 05/31/07 08:01 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I soon got tired of boiling 2-3 times to remove all the old wax."

I'm uncertain what you have going on, but one dunk in boiling water should remove all the wax from a trap in about 15 - 20 minutes. In fact, this is the advantage I in find in wax -- you can strip a trap to the bare metal in 15 minutes. Again, I don't know what kind of problems you experienced.

But here is another question, and let's actually base it on your original premise that you had trouble removing the old wax. How do you remove the old dip from your traps at the end of the season? Why would it be more important to remove all of the old wax from a trap, and not be important to remove all the old dip from a trap?

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

Top
#18199 - 06/01/07 01:47 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Mike McChurin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 497
Loc: NE Oklahoma
I kept having traps come out of the boiling pot(30-45 min. soak in the boiling water) with little "nodules" of wax stuck on the traps here and there. If I was only going to re-wax the traps it was not a problem. But, the dye would not take in spots where the wax was still present.

Here is where I am probably going to catch the most flak frown because I don't strip all the old dip off of the traps after each season. A lot of them are pretty well stripped of dip by season end anyway. I boil them to remove all the gunk (mud, blood, etc...) and make sure they are as clean as I can get them and re-dip.

The problem was never getting all the gunk off of the waxed traps. It was getting all the old wax off.

I haven't had any issues with re-dipping over the remnants of the old dip.

But, I may just be lucky. smile

Mike

Top
#18200 - 06/01/07 05:29 AM Re: Dye or Dip
animalpest Offline
Member+

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Western Australia
I dont use dip or dye anymore. But then I only land trap canines. And dyeing traps doesnt achieve anything trapping canines.

So here is my take. I high pressure clean, then boil for 15 minutes, then dry them and wax. All traps get this treatment, no matter what they did/caught/didnt catch. (new traps get an extra wash first).

I have no trouble with removing wax by boiling, and I certainly dont have a problem removing old dip or dye.

Now here is an interesting fact. In Australia, professional canine trappers (called 'doggers') have never used dips, dies or wax for 150 years! And they catch what they target. Come to think of it, I caught 400 foxes before I even waxed a trap! Perhaps all this treatment of traps is over-rated on land.
Mike

Top
#18201 - 06/01/07 06:10 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
In a dry climet you can get away with out treating your traps. (I guess)
But around here. They would rust up,and just go away.

Top
#18202 - 06/01/07 08:55 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Mike: I was being factious about removing all the old dip. I don't know of anybody who does that seasonally. I treat dipped traps the same as you, boil them clean and redip them.

However, this mystery with "wax nodules" begs to be solved. Wax melts somewhere below 100 C, which is the boiling point of water. If your traps are submerged in boiling water, any wax that is on them must liquefy. It cannot remain in solid form. Under ordinary conditions, this liquid wax then floats to the top of the boiling kettle (wax is less dense than water). This could be the source of your problem.

If you lift traps up through this layer of liquid wax that floats on the surface of the kettle, it is possible to re deposit the wax back onto the trap. In fact, this is the old fashioned method for waxing traps -- you melt a cake of wax on top of some boiling water, submerge the traps into the water, let them warm for a minute, then pull them back up through that layer of wax. (But this doesn't do a very good job of waxing them.)

Could this possibly be the source of the wax "nodules" on your traps? Are you pulling the trap up through the layer of wax that you just boiled off of them?

To avoid this problem, some folks add water to the kettle when they are done until it overflows, this way, the old wax is carried away with the overflowing water.

I use a different method because I don't like to kill the boil on my cleaning kettle. I have two kettles of boiling water one is for rinsing the traps. For starters, I clean traps in the order they are most likely to be dirty, bodygrips first, water traps next, and finally, the waxed land traps. When I am removing traps from the cleaning kettle, I maintain the kettle at a rolling boil and pull the traps out quickly. This leaves very little old wax sticking to them. I immediately dunk them in the rinse kettle. Sometimes the rinse kettle will get a thin layer of wax on it and I have to overflow it to get rid of the wax, but most of the time, I don't have to do that as the rinse kettle stays fairly clean.

Back to the point. If you have wax stuck to the outside of your traps, after you have boiled them, there is something wrong. Could the above explanation be applicable?

quest -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

Top
#18203 - 06/02/07 01:27 AM Re: Dye or Dip
Grampa Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Vermont
Hal, as someone who has used the more traditional metheod for years, I like the twist on your metheod. I'm going to try that multi bucket boil. Thanks

Top
#18204 - 06/03/07 04:09 PM Re: Dye or Dip
Mike McChurin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 497
Loc: NE Oklahoma
Hal,

I suspected pulling traps out of the boiling water deposited wax back on them. So I finally started letting the fire die and letting the water set overnight. Next day, I could pull the layer of wax off the top of the water and remove the traps. That helped a lot. But I still had small "dots" of wax here and there. And believe me, my water was boiling!

I am not going to give up on dyeing/waxing completely. I may try it again this season.

Mike

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Archive 

 
Sullivan's Line - Trapping Books, Videos, and Other Products for the Trapper.
 
Design and Production by Sullivan Promotions
Copyright 2000-2017  Sullivan's Scents and Supplies - All rights reserved.