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#18268 - 07/17/07 09:38 PM Cleaning and treating snares.
Steve Gilliland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Kansas
I have read that Tom Krause spray paints his snares. What are the best ways you guys have found to clean and treat snares? Also, what are your experiences and advice concerning using kill poles with snares?

(Edit. Title edited. -- Hal)

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#18269 - 07/18/07 09:51 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
NEbowhunter Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 574
Loc: Holdrege, Nebraska
i just boil them in baking soda to "dull" them up and thats pretty much it.

i don't do it religiously, but i do like to use kill poles. catch is waiting for you when you get there and you can generally tangle them pretty quick, possibly allowing for another set to be used in that location instead of having everything torn up.

i'm talking coyotes here. for cats, i really don't worry about kill poles. they do er pretty good them selves.

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#18270 - 07/19/07 05:23 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
I vary what I do depending on time and whim.

I used to boil in baking soda. It still happens but I'm a little leary of this method since I read that the soda can actually weaken the cable - even though this has never been a problem for me.

Often I boil them with conifer branches/alder bark. This works well once the lock is rusted a little and the sun/weather has dulled them a little.

I dip them. Sometimes I just dip half the snare (lock side). If you dip work the lock a few times so that there is no excess of dip to slow down the snare.

Best of luck. smile

edited for spelling

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#18271 - 07/19/07 06:19 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1933
Loc: WV
I've also tried the soda and wood dye methods mentioned above, seems to me, really what we're doing is removing the little bit of oil protection from the cable and lock. For you guys trapping the dry, arid regions of the west, rust may not be a big problem? Locally I've had snares, locks rust after 3 or 4 weeks on land, it only takes a couple of days under water. I also don't like the shine of new cable and have been experimenting with Newt's brown dip (formula 1). From what I've seen so far, it looks good, and it's quick and easy. smile

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#18272 - 07/19/07 08:39 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
I've used f-1 on snares and it was excellent.

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#18273 - 07/20/07 07:07 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
"I read that the soda can actually weaken the cable"

Brian: I think you know our policy on secondhand information. smile

Can you more fully explain how the cable is weakened by boiling it in soda. I would really like to know because if boiling snares in baking soda weakens the cable to any significant degree, I'll stop doing it and stop recommending it.

Tim: It sounds to me like your baking soda solution is way too strong, especially if the cable itself is rusting. (I know this because I did that myself one time.) 1/4 cup of soda in 1 gallon of water is more than enough.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18274 - 07/20/07 02:32 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Beaver Man Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 28
Loc: Northern Minnesota
Wont boiling snares in soda or diping them couse them to be slower and reduce your cath numbers.
This is just somethin I heard and was wondering what you guys think.

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#18275 - 07/20/07 03:01 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Sometimes answers are self-evident. Do you actully think the folks responding to this thread are interested in reducing the number of animals they catch in thier snares?

confused -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18276 - 07/22/07 06:47 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
Hal: Yep, the baking soda/weakening cable stuff is second-hand. So is a lot of information I tell my kids (aids/drugs/poor driving habits). I figured that's it's better to be warned and aware than to be ignorant and surprised. laugh

I'm not certain where I got the info from but it has to be from an intenet trapping site. confused If I remember correctly, the soda penetrates the cable and weakens the inner core of the snare. This weakens the breakage point of the cable. The weakening could be caused by the oil being removed from the inner coil by the baking soda. Rust can then develop with the negative results. A dip/dye coats the outside cable leaving the inner core of the snare in it's original condition.

I COULD BE ALL WET AND REMEMBERING INCORRECTLY. That's why I qualified my statement saying that snares breaking have not been a problem with me. AND I've treated an awful lot of snares with baking soda. I've definitely treated more snares with baking soda than with anything else. However, I stopped using soda - because of what I read and because I like to try new stuff.

Hopefully someone like WackyQ can throw a little science into this. Newt must have an experienced opinion about this also.

I would prefer to be shown that soda is not harmful. When you need a batch of snares in a hurry, it's fairly simple to brew a batch on the woodstove using baking soda. smile

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#18277 - 07/22/07 12:04 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Well, let me see if I've got this right. You are willing to take "on faith" that boiling snares in baking soda weakens them, because you read that somewhere. Now, in order to convince yourself it's not, you require that someone "show" you it's not harmful? Don't you think your requirement for proof is a little lopsided?

Gee whiz. smile

I ain't no Wackyquacker, but I can science a little bit.

For starters, yes you can overdo this. I did one time. I had a whole box (one pound) of baking soda that was clumped up, so I just dumped the whole thing in a gallon pot with some snares and boiled them about a half hour. I don't think the baking soda at the bottom of the pot ever fully dissolved. I had a concentrated solution. Long story short, some of those snares, especially those that had coils laying near the bottom of the pot, did start to rust after a short time in the field. I had to throw some of them away.

If you boil snares in baking soda, you don't need any more that 1/4 cup (That's 4 Tablespoons) to the gallon. You are doing two things here. First, you are cleaning the snares, and removing the oily smell from the cable. Secondly, you are instituting a chemical reaction on the galvanize coating on the wire. You are making oxides and hydroxides which are a dull gray color. That's why the cable gets dull.

Where I went wrong earlier was to make a highly concentrated caustic solution. Granted this is hard to do with plain old baking soda -- but I managed to do it. In this state, instead of forming the oxide/hydroxide coating on the surface of the galvanization, the solution attacks and removes the coating. The steel is exposed and rusts quickly. That's why it is not a good idea to boil snares in lye water. Lye is a very strong caustic.

But back to the point. Boiling your snares is a dilute solution of baking soda is not going to weaken them to any degree that would be measurable to you. As for them rusting from the "inside out" I don't see how that’s gonna happen. There is not going to be enough residual baking soda "inside" the cable to do any harm.

Really, this baking soda bath is little more than to speed up the process a snare would incur in nature. Even if you hang a brand new shiny, untreated snare, it is going to dull up on its own in a few weeks. I wouldn't worry about a baking soda bath causing premature failure of your cable.

But while we are on this subject. I can not recommend soaking or dunking galvanized snares in vinegar or any other acid for that matter. Acids go "straight to the throat" on the galvanizing material. They don't form any coatings, they just eat straight away at the galvanizing. (And I hope that doesn't confuse the issue.)

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18278 - 07/22/07 02:36 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
Hal: I don't think my logic is lopsided at all. :rolleyes: When you have information that something is possibly harmful it is wise to avoid it until you know it is safe. If pharmaceutical companies didn't follow that logic we'd all be in trouble.

In a lighter note, I could just imagine two guys in a plane in which one says, "I heard that jumping out of an airplane with this parachute design is dangerous. Show me that it's safe." And then the second guy replies, "You believe that it might be dangerous but you don't believe me when I say it's safe. After you." laugh

So I gather from your "sciencing" that all is fine with baking soda if the solution is not saturated. Or do you think that the cable lying on the bottom of the boiling container with the undissolved baking soda caused the problem you experienced. (Was it the solution or the undissolved soda that "ate" the cable?)

A second question. You mentioned clumped baking soda. That implies that the box had been open for a while. It possibly absorbed odours.Would the old baking soda, that was in the fridge since refrigerators became cool, be fine or would it transfer odours?

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#18279 - 07/22/07 03:44 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I suspect it was the wet clumps of soda lying on the bottom that were my major problem. Like I said, it is really hard to get a baking soda solution strong enough to do the damage I described.

And no, I do not recommend using boxes of soda that have been used for odor control as something to boil snares in. This was just an old box from the cupboard.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18280 - 07/23/07 06:02 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Steve Gilliland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Kansas
When you guys are finished wailing away at each other over the "too-strong, clumpy baking soda weakening snares" thing, I'd like to hear more about the second portion of my original question, concerning the use of kill poles; i.e. your experience with them, do you like or dislike them, lethal or non-lethal snares with them, etc. Thanks!

(Edit: I suggest that if you want to discuss two topics as disperate as treating snares and using kill poles, that you start two topics. And if you don't find these discussions informative, maybe this isn't the palce for you. -- Hal)

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#18281 - 07/23/07 07:13 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
I snare/trap in and around salt water.I used to boil my snares in baking soda.When the snares came off the line,they would rust up before the next season.I tryed vinger. The same thing happened.
After years of this,just cut'n up and throwing away snares.I tryed Paint ,logwood,speed dip,ect.With NO luck
Then I Formulated Formula One just for my snares. IT WORKED. Then I thought it might work on traps too. IT DOES.
Today I would NOT treat any snare with baking soda or vinger. I would rather hang them out in the weather,to dull them.OR dip in Formula One.
Today I use Stainless Steel cable for my snares. Formula One works on these too.


Also I might add that the next time I print more lables. I am gona take off the boiling and or vinger wash part before dipping in Formula One. This year I tryed dipping with out boiling or vinger. IT WORKED JUST FINE.

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#18282 - 07/24/07 07:24 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Now we have a distinct dilemma.

I have snares that, for one reason or another, are several years old. Every one of these snares has been boiled in baking soda none of these snares are rusty.

Newt: how do you explain that your snares rust after being treated with a baking soda solution and mine don't?

I'm not against you selling Formula One, but any means, but I am against establishing questionable pretenses to favor it. If your snares are rusting from a baking soda treatment, you must have had the solution too strong, as I explained above. What conditions are different between my galvanized cable and yours?

Does any one else out there, who boils their snares in baking soda, have a problem with them rusting from one season to the next? I really would like to know.

quest -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18283 - 07/24/07 09:32 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Top Jimmy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Alaska
Hal. I think it could be the environment that Newt is trapping. He stated "I snare/trap in and around salt water." The first line in his post. I am betting that is the reason.

I am finding this an interesting read, overall. Where we snare beaver under the ice, all our snares will darken up almost black when in the water, and then will rust when you take them out and get them home. I am sure it is the dark, dank swamp water they are in, but haven't really explored it. Now I just may have to.

Keep it up guys.

-TJ

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#18284 - 07/24/07 10:24 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Environment can be a factor. But gol-darn it, if you use snares or any other steel objects in salt water, there is no justification for blaming baking soda as a cause for rust. That's like eating a thousand pounds of candy, then blaming your tooth decay on carrots.

The vast majority of trappers do not trap in salt water. In salt water, it could in fact be a good idea to use some additional treatment on snares and traps. We are talking here about what the average trapper can/should do to treat their snares.

But I do also believe that certain types of water are harder on steel that others. I know that on my own traplines, some areas of water cause my traps to rust more than others. I think a lot of "black water" tends to be acidic because of the rotting vegetation. Again, acids are considerably harder on the galvanized coating than are bases. If you really are curious about this, see if you can get a hold of a little bit of ph paper. This paper changes color according to the acidic or basic reading of the test substance. There are also kits for home gardeners that have ph tests included. I'll bet that the water that causes your snares to darken and rust has an elevated acidic level.

That said, I'm not sure exactly how well you could protect those snares. I really can't think of any product that would fully penetrate the tight weave of the cable and protect the individual strands. That is, in fact, why the cable is spun from galvanized wire. That is the first line of defense against rust. But soaking it in that acid water, day, after day, after day -- the water will eventually penetrate to the center of the cable anyway.

I'm not sure exactly what you cold do protect a cable that was actually going to be submerged and soaked in an inhospitable medium for days on end.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18285 - 07/24/07 05:37 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
I'm guessing that you would have to coat the cable so nothing penetrates. By sealing the outside nothing can get inside.

I agree with the dead vegetation increasing rust on equipment. However, acid lakes (dead lakes due to acid rain) are "gin" clear. I've seen them and I even have one on my line. I don't trap it because there's nothing to trap. No plants therefore no foodchain base.

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#18286 - 07/24/07 09:10 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Ldsoldier Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 917
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Hal, I don't think Newt meant that the baking soda solution caused rust, but merely failed to prevent it, along with several other common treatments.

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#18287 - 07/24/07 09:46 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
Ok, I also said that I would rather hang them out in the weather,to dull them ,or dip them in Formula One.
I will also add that Formula One did NOT keep the galvanized snare cable from rusting in the salt water enviorment completly. But it helped.

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#18288 - 07/25/07 02:57 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Maybe some of this has become unclear.

Baking soda offers no rust protection, and I can't believe anyone would think it would. All baking soda does is camouflage the cable by dulling it.

From a personal standpoint, I rely entirely on the galvanization for rust protection. Generally my snares are not hanging long enough to rust before they make a catch. Even if I have to hold them over until the next season. However, I am always conscious about using up my "old" snares first, so they really don't get much opportunity to rust.

If I did have to trap in a salt water environment, I would consider giving the snares some additional protection. But even so, like Newt said, nothing is fool proof in a saltwater environment -- except maybe stainless cable.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18289 - 07/26/07 06:28 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
My snares are never/always old until I make a catch. Then they are garbage.

We're talking about rust and cable. But there's a lock on the snare. That rusts in a hurry unless you prepare your equipment.

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#18290 - 07/26/07 08:02 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Tell us why you think a rusty lock would be a problem.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18291 - 07/26/07 02:14 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
I don't find that a rusty lock is as slick on the snare closing. I'm also nervous about the odour of rust and canids. Rusty locks can also stain fur.

Up to a certain point, locks can be reused. You might as well take care of them.

My snares are all stored in 5 gallon buckets. I set the old, set some new, and everything gets mixed together in the pick up at the end of the season. Since I have changed lock types everal times, I can spot an older snare. I have a few that haven't been lucky for more than a decade. They'll be set again this year and this time might be their turn to see some action. Because my locks aren't rusty I feel comfortable doing that.

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#18292 - 07/26/07 02:38 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I use mostly galvanized locks too. I really don't have too many rusty ones -- but a few. I don't find rusty locks to be a problem. If they do develope gritty rust in the off season, I just run them back and forth on the cable a couple of times. That polishes the rust right off of the bearing surfaces of the lock.

If you're worried about canies being afraid of rust, you'll just have to overcome that phobia on your own. smile

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18293 - 07/26/07 09:51 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
I never had a problem with using rusty locks. But being in my salt water (again)
I find locks with moving parts freeze up (cam locks)
and locks with thin metal will even rust away so they cant be used over. (Gregerson)
NOW, I did'nt say that threse locks were bad locks. Just that they weren't desizined for salt water.

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#18294 - 07/27/07 06:36 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I suspect you mean that a Gregerson lock might be destroyed by rust even before you make a catch because in my experience Gregerson or any other sheet metal lock is hardly, if ever, reusable after they make one catch.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18295 - 07/27/07 06:41 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1933
Loc: WV
Let's look at a piece of common snare cable, 5/64" 7X7. 5/64" measures 0.078125 inches. 7X7 means it's made of 7 strands, with 7 pieces per strand, that's 6 strands wrapped around 1 center strand. If we take 7 round (identical) objects and squeeze them together, any way you measure it, you should have 3 (objects) in a row at the widest place. Let's take 0.078125 divided by 3=0.026042 inches, that's one strand's diameter, that strand is 7 pieces of galvanized wire. 0.026042" divided by 3=0.008681". A dollar bill is 0.003" thick. I think most folks will agree, you don't have much galvanize coating on a piece of wire 0.009" thick. (I'm rounding #'s up) smile

I'm sure my baking soda solution was a lot more than 1/4 cup per gallon, if we can make it too concentrated, that tells me that the soda is actually "eating" the galvanize.

One way we might be able to finish this thread, if a couple of you guys have "old" snares that have been boiled in baking soda, would cut off 2 or 3 inches and unroll the strands of the cable and examine the individual pieces, and give us your findings. smile

(pm me your address, i'll mail you a new ferrule laugh )

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#18296 - 07/27/07 07:47 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Newt Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/00
Posts: 508
Loc: Port Republic,South Jersey & C...
Lit me put it this way Hal. If the snare with a Gregerson lock, doesn't make a catch.In the first season that it is out on the line. Most likly it will be no good by the following year.
i never had one rust out the first year.

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#18297 - 07/28/07 12:14 AM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
northern trapper Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/00
Posts: 274
Loc: Wood Buffalo, Alberta, Canada
I have boiled thousands of snares in baking soda with no weakening and no rust. Then I just bury them in a 45 gal drum of loamy soil. I do it with traps to and it works great

When I used Cam Locks I used to wax the lock to prevent icing, but then I switched back to the Adams lock.

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#18298 - 07/28/07 01:05 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Maze Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 32
Loc: Nebraska
I like my locks rusty.

#1 Reason is when I check my snares and I have a shiny lock it's the first thing I see. That tells me some else will spot them a little easier also.
#2 Reason is if I have a shiny lock I usually but a leaf or something over the lock to hide it. If it is rusty I dont have to take the time to hide it. It just blends in naturally.

As far as kill poles go, to each their own I guess. I dont use them because I like to see a nice red or whatever bouncing around when I get there.

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#18299 - 07/28/07 02:00 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
"you don't have much galvanize coating on a piece of wire 0.009" thick."

Don't confuse the galvanization process with paint or similar coatings. It does not function on the thickness of the coating.

"I'm sure my baking soda solution was a lot more than 1/4 cup per gallon, if we can make it too concentrated, that tells me that the soda is actually "eating" the galvanize."

No. You've over-extended your chemistry. The reaction with a concentrated basic solution is different than the reaction with a mild or dilute base. It’s a different reaction not just a stronger or weaker version (as the case may be) of the same reaction, as you implied.

As for cutting chunks of cable, that won't be necessary. Like I said, I hold snares over for a year, sometimes more. As often happens when you make a catch and your swivel fouls (if you're using a swivel) the cable will open up on its own as the animal twists in the snare. I really can't recall seeing any rust inside any of this cable as I cut it free from the critter.

That is my observation.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18300 - 07/28/07 03:22 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
I didn't think that different chemical reactions happened with lesser amounts. I thought that milder reactions did.

Like Hal, I never saw rust inside a cable.

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#18301 - 07/28/07 05:49 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9886
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Maybe it would be good to establish here that I don't see anything wrong with giving snares and additional treatment if you want to. I just don't think it is necessary. I don't see anything wrong with dipping them, painting them or even waxing them if you wanted to.

That said, I don't think I would personally use the same dip on snares that I use on my traps. It's too sticky for that. Maybe if I used a different solvent (I'm using lantern fuel). I've never used Formula One, but I understand it dries "hard" so that might be a good choice for snares. Again, I don't think it's necessary, but I don't think it hurts anything.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#18302 - 07/28/07 07:06 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1963
Loc: Qc.
If you find your speed dip too sticky dilute it with more lantern fuel.I leave my dipped stuff dry a long time. My stuff has been dipped for over a month, maybe 2, and it won't be used until the end of Oct..

A "sticky" snare can also stain fur. Lock speed isn't good either.

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#18303 - 07/28/07 11:40 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares.
northern trapper Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/00
Posts: 274
Loc: Wood Buffalo, Alberta, Canada
Snares don't need anything more than to have the factory oil removed and some de-scenting which usually takes the shine off as well. I think handling and setting have a lot more to do with misses with snares than the snare itself.

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#25466 - 10/25/17 01:36 PM Re: Cleaning and treating snares. [Re: Steve Gilliland]
Archive Offline


Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 1116
Dated for search.

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