Hal: I don't think my logic is lopsided at all. :rolleyes: When you have information that something is possibly harmful it is wise to avoid it until you know it is safe. If pharmaceutical companies didn't follow that logic we'd all be in trouble.

In a lighter note, I could just imagine two guys in a plane in which one says, "I heard that jumping out of an airplane with this parachute design is dangerous. Show me that it's safe." And then the second guy replies, "You believe that it might be dangerous but you don't believe me when I say it's safe. After you."

So I gather from your "sciencing" that all is fine with baking soda if the solution is not saturated. Or do you think that the cable lying on the bottom of the boiling container with the undissolved baking soda caused the problem you experienced. (Was it the solution or the undissolved soda that "ate" the cable?)

A second question. You mentioned clumped baking soda. That implies that the box had been open for a while. It possibly absorbed odours.Would the old baking soda, that was in the fridge since refrigerators became cool, be fine or would it transfer odours?

I suspect it was the wet clumps of soda lying on the bottom that were my major problem. Like I said, it is really hard to get a baking soda solution strong enough to do the damage I described.

And no, I do not recommend using boxes of soda that have been used for odor control as something to boil snares in. This was just an old box from the cupboard.

-- Hal

When you guys are finished wailing away at each other over the "too-strong, clumpy baking soda weakening snares" thing, I'd like to hear more about the second portion of my original question, concerning the use of kill poles; i.e. your experience with them, do you like or dislike them, lethal or non-lethal snares with them, etc. Thanks!

(Edit: I suggest that if you want to discuss two topics as disperate as treating snares and using kill poles, that you start two topics. And if you don't find these discussions informative, maybe this isn't the palce for you. -- Hal)

I snare/trap in and around salt water.I used to boil my snares in baking soda.When the snares came off the line,they would rust up before the next season.I tryed vinger. The same thing happened.
After years of this,just cut'n up and throwing away snares.I tryed Paint ,logwood,speed dip,ect.With NO luck
Then I Formulated Formula One just for my snares. IT WORKED. Then I thought it might work on traps too. IT DOES.
Today I would NOT treat any snare with baking soda or vinger. I would rather hang them out in the weather,to dull them.OR dip in Formula One.
Today I use Stainless Steel cable for my snares. Formula One works on these too.


Also I might add that the next time I print more lables. I am gona take off the boiling and or vinger wash part before dipping in Formula One. This year I tryed dipping with out boiling or vinger. IT WORKED JUST FINE.

Now we have a distinct dilemma.

I have snares that, for one reason or another, are several years old. Every one of these snares has been boiled in baking soda none of these snares are rusty.

Newt: how do you explain that your snares rust after being treated with a baking soda solution and mine don't?

I'm not against you selling Formula One, but any means, but I am against establishing questionable pretenses to favor it. If your snares are rusting from a baking soda treatment, you must have had the solution too strong, as I explained above. What conditions are different between my galvanized cable and yours?

Does any one else out there, who boils their snares in baking soda, have a problem with them rusting from one season to the next? I really would like to know.

-- Hal

Hal. I think it could be the environment that Newt is trapping. He stated "I snare/trap in and around salt water." The first line in his post. I am betting that is the reason.

I am finding this an interesting read, overall. Where we snare beaver under the ice, all our snares will darken up almost black when in the water, and then will rust when you take them out and get them home. I am sure it is the dark, dank swamp water they are in, but haven't really explored it. Now I just may have to.

Keep it up guys.

-TJ

Environment can be a factor. But gol-darn it, if you use snares or any other steel objects in salt water, there is no justification for blaming baking soda as a cause for rust. That's like eating a thousand pounds of candy, then blaming your tooth decay on carrots.

The vast majority of trappers do not trap in salt water. In salt water, it could in fact be a good idea to use some additional treatment on snares and traps. We are talking here about what the average trapper can/should do to treat their snares.

But I do also believe that certain types of water are harder on steel that others. I know that on my own traplines, some areas of water cause my traps to rust more than others. I think a lot of "black water" tends to be acidic because of the rotting vegetation. Again, acids are considerably harder on the galvanized coating than are bases. If you really are curious about this, see if you can get a hold of a little bit of ph paper. This paper changes color according to the acidic or basic reading of the test substance. There are also kits for home gardeners that have ph tests included. I'll bet that the water that causes your snares to darken and rust has an elevated acidic level.

That said, I'm not sure exactly how well you could protect those snares. I really can't think of any product that would fully penetrate the tight weave of the cable and protect the individual strands. That is, in fact, why the cable is spun from galvanized wire. That is the first line of defense against rust. But soaking it in that acid water, day, after day, after day -- the water will eventually penetrate to the center of the cable anyway.

I'm not sure exactly what you cold do protect a cable that was actually going to be submerged and soaked in an inhospitable medium for days on end.

-- Hal

I'm guessing that you would have to coat the cable so nothing penetrates. By sealing the outside nothing can get inside.

I agree with the dead vegetation increasing rust on equipment. However, acid lakes (dead lakes due to acid rain) are "gin" clear. I've seen them and I even have one on my line. I don't trap it because there's nothing to trap. No plants therefore no foodchain base.

Hal, I don't think Newt meant that the baking soda solution caused rust, but merely failed to prevent it, along with several other common treatments.

Ok, I also said that I would rather hang them out in the weather,to dull them ,or dip them in Formula One.
I will also add that Formula One did NOT keep the galvanized snare cable from rusting in the salt water enviorment completly. But it helped.