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#2078 - 11/24/05 07:22 PM marten trapping
foss4936 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: weston,maine
2 weeks ago i took a piece of deer rib cage and wired it to a small tree. Yesterday i finally caught my first pine marten. Caught him in a #2 victor coilspring square jaw.i also used gide sticks. Has anyone tried this approach?

Also on the belly of the animal appears to have some kind of pitch on, not alot but how do i get this out?

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#2079 - 11/24/05 07:49 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
I have hung meat like you before, but I always had problems with greyjays and other birds getting caught in the trap.

If the pitch won't come out with gentle brushing and working with your fingers, then leave it alone. Let the buyer deal with it, NAFA even writes that in their fur prep manual. I just brush the hair around it so its not as noticeable. Being that its small and on the belly, the pelt may not even get downgraded.

RO smile

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#2080 - 11/24/05 08:28 PM Re: marten trapping
skinner69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 152
Loc: stillwater,new york
If the pitch your referring to is pine pitch try this.Spray some womens hair spray on a rag and wipe the spot where the pitch is and it should come right out.It doesn't affect the fur and takes the pine pitch off with a little rubbing.

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#2081 - 11/25/05 08:16 AM Re: marten trapping
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3679
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
I'm not much into womens hair care products.But "hair spray" on marten fur seems like a very bad idea.Pitch mats on Marten fur is not something that is unusual given the realestate they live in.If it can't be removed with little effort I would leave it alone and let the grader detirmin how much of a problem it really is.

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#2082 - 11/25/05 08:26 AM Re: marten trapping
skinner69 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 152
Loc: stillwater,new york
I'm not much into womens hair care products myself but if it works in a situation like this,then i'll use it and have used it.

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#2083 - 11/25/05 09:16 AM Re: marten trapping
beavbgone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 21
Loc: minnesota
I don't know if it will work on marten but rubbing butter on it sure works good on my dog. I wouldn't of believed it but that is what someone showed me and it worked really well, can't hurt to try.

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#2084 - 11/25/05 10:48 AM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
How about a better description of your set, or some photos?

A #2 is way too big for marten. I have a few #1 1/2 LS marten traps, and I always get a few that crawl back through the jaws or a spring before they die, so I have to haul the whole mess back to town and thaw it out to get my trap back. A #1 is the perfect size, but I'd try #0s if I could find them.

You don't really need guide sticks or covered traps for marten. Just make the trap pan a convenient (or, better, necessary) place to step.

Most pitch gets in the fur after it's caught. Keep them swinging away from conifers. If you have a marten or two, you might try removing it. Just don't make a bald spot. I just fluff em up and let em go, and seldom (never?) get docked for pitchy marten (then again, I'm pretty good at keeping them clean while they're in the trap).

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#2085 - 11/25/05 05:38 PM Re: marten trapping
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2064
Loc: Qc.
Although marten succumb easily to hypothermia, I would avoid using footholds unless you have VERY cold temperatures.

A 120 will do the trick just as well and you might catch less jays.

I have never being docked for pitch or coni marks.But, as Dusty wrote, thaw out the marten if it's frozen in the trap.

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#2086 - 11/25/05 07:59 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
Beavtrapper, butter works very good on pitch, but then you have butter in the fur. confused

RO smile

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#2087 - 11/26/05 04:24 PM Re: marten trapping
foss4936 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: weston,maine
ok thanks
would a 110coni work for martin in a cubbie set.
lately I have been makeing cubbies with a little wire and evergreen bows up against trees. For bait ive been useing rabbit meat and deer.

Also whats the best trap for martin? (conibears,footholds) and what size? smile

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#2088 - 11/26/05 06:25 PM Re: marten trapping
beavbgone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 21
Loc: minnesota
I like to make little wooden cubbies out of scrap wood I make a notch for the spring on one end and use 1/8" screen on the other end. Put your bait in and set your trap, can't get any easier. I prefer 120's but if all you have is 110's use them for now, hope this helps good luck.

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#2089 - 11/26/05 08:52 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
The 120 mag, is the best marten trap on the market for quick kills. If you set them so they hang free and clear of the tree/ground once fired, you can't beat em'. 110's will work if they're legal and thats all you have, but they're far from the most effecient marten trap. Foot holds are a last resort, and only in very cold climates where hypothermia will set in fast, IMO.

RO smile

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#2090 - 11/27/05 08:35 PM Re: marten trapping
foss4936 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: weston,maine
ok thanks for the info smile
But why should you only use foot hold traps in very cold weather, and what is your definition of cold. confused right now at night time it gets down around 10 farienheit where i am.

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#2091 - 11/28/05 10:55 AM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
Canadians just like to legislate things. Lots of people in SE AK - a temperate rainforest - get along fine trapping marten with foot traps. They certainly work where I am (Interior AK), and I don't have to haul the trap back to town to get my marten out.

I've yet to lose a marten from a 110 - you can't get much more efficient than 100%.

#1 LS/jump and #110's are my traps of choice. I definately set more 110s, but that's partially because I only have a couple hundred 1s and can't afford more!

I use a bucket over my foot traps and catch about the same number of jays in foot traps as conibears - a couple a year.

You can order flower buckets for cubbies - they're cheap and fast.

How often are you checking? On a 24h check, you can get away with about anything.

Cold, where I trap, starts at about -40. I don't start my airplane below -50 unless I absolutely have to.

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#2092 - 11/28/05 04:26 PM Re: marten trapping
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2064
Loc: Qc.
Dusty: Your post is on the money in several aspects. The first sentence is right on!

The thawing out of a marten in a body grip is a real pain. It pays to haul an extra trap or two. I thawed a frozen in fisher (160) by using the truck exhaust yesterday.

Jays? Sometimes I catch 2 at a time.

The real point is that it's nice for a trapper to have as many choices of traps to use as possible. Unfortunately we don't have that option.

Some of the new 120 mags are scary with regard to strength. If I'm not mistaken, they are made to induce irreseversable coma within 75 seconds.

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#2093 - 11/28/05 05:30 PM Re: marten trapping
foss4936 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: weston,maine
dusty, yes i do check my traps every 24hrs, not only footholds but conibears also, sometimes if i dont other animals will beat me to my catch, and besides in maine its agan the law to not check foothold traps daily smile
-40 degrees?, thats cold! eek Is that -40 degrees counting the wind chill, id make sure i had my wool socks on.
by the way where do i order these flower buckets?

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#2094 - 11/28/05 06:18 PM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
try putting a bucket just a couple inches over your trap, bait in the bucket, to avoid jays. Maybe I've just killed all the stoopid ones already....

With conibears, I cut slots in the bucket (one for the clip, one for the spring) and pull the bucket down over the trap. The set is vertical on a tree.

Those big black buckets are, I think, the best marten lure in the world (and, I can see them well enough to check without landing).

Yes, the trap switch thing is a huge pain. I pretty much have to own 200 conibears to set 100. They go up VERY fast and are cheap, so it's worth it to me. I can also quickly put another clip in when I get deep snow (some of my late-year clips are 10' above my early-year clips). In the perfect world (perfect being more than 4 hours of daylight when I'm setting!) I'd have hundreds of pole sets already in and could just bait and set in November.

I set as many traps as I have to in close proximity to avoid cannabalism. Sometimes that means a half-dozen traps within 50' of each other.

The wind doesn't usually blow when it's colder than about -30.

Your local greenhouse will probably sell you a few buckets to play with. You have to buy 1000 or so to get them cheap. They look something like this:

[img]http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/btgrowersupply_1871_1593476[/img]

http://store.yahoo.com/btgrowersupply/ful1galcon.html

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#2095 - 11/28/05 06:37 PM Re: marten trapping
foss4936 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: weston,maine
thanks dusty smile
ill definatly have try this approach with the buckets
you said you usally set 6 traps within 50 feet of one another, so do martin tend run in groups?

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#2096 - 11/28/05 08:08 PM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
Not necessarily. I just trap very good marten habitat with very bad weather. I airplane trap, so I often don't get to check for a month or more due to extreme cold (60 year old airplanes do NOT like -50F), overflow, big drifts, etc. Canabalism is a major concern, so I set enough traps to kill every marten that is likely to come along until I can get back. Sometimes that's two traps at a site, sometimes it's 10. Marten are worth a lot of money and extra traps are cheap insurance.

BTW, with foot traps you can often find your marten if you come back to a foot. Other marten seem to love to pack them off and stash them, but they usually don't eat them.

With a 24h check, I'd not do a lot of this. I could catch just as many marten with a lot less traps if I had reliable daily access.

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#2097 - 11/28/05 09:59 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
Dusty, what I meant by "Efficient" was how fast the marten dies; I should have used the word "Humane" instead. A marten may not "get out" of a 110(or a foot hold), but it sure as heck won't die nearly as quick as a 120 mag, especially in temps above 0`F. When I used to run a lot of 110's, it was not unusuall to have live martens hanging when the weather was a little warmer. With the new 120's, I get a lot of marten still in the box because they didn't move after the trap fired. As for having 200 traps to keep 100 set, I don't buy it. The only time I have to take trap+critter home as a package is after a thaw/freeze, otherwise they come out no problem. I don't know if the U.S. signed into A.I.H.T.S. or not, but if they did, starting Jan. 2007 a lot of the older coni's and footholds won't be legal anymore(On land anyway).

Canadian government legislates to many things. I agree, but I don't consider making trapping equipment meet a certain performance threshold a bad thing. My goal(regardless of law) is to render the quickest, least painfull death possible to the animals I trap(when using traps designed to kill). For my restraint traps, I want ones that hold good while doing the least amount of damage/discomfort to the animal being held. The best part is I can do all of the above without affecting catch numbers. For me thats smart trapping.

RO smile

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#2098 - 11/28/05 10:17 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
Foss, you need pretty high densities of marten to run clumps of traps. If your checking more than once a month, you'll do just fine with a 1/2 - 3/4 mile trap spacing. If you find a set that always seems to have a marten in it, then I would set another trap close by, other than that, your better off to cover more area with the traps you have. I run a line through good marten habitat and trap every marten I can, while leaving the surrounding 5-10 mile wide strips on either side alone. This system allows the marten in the buffer zone to repopulate my line for the following season.

RO smile

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#2099 - 11/29/05 10:32 AM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA

I should have used the word "Humane" instead.


That's a bit anthropomorphistic, don't you think?

it was not unusuall to have live martens hanging when the weather was a little warmer

I've found one live marten in a 110 - ever - and I heard him get caught about 2 minutes after I set the trap. I hung around to watch him die - it took well under 5 minutes in a weak-springed Duke 110. It's all about how you set your triggers. A "perfect" head catch is far from perfect - a "suitcase" catch kills them just fine, as evidenced from several hundred of my cheap and chewable plastic buckets.

As for having 200 traps to keep 100 set, I don't buy it.

Then don't. I'm not trying to sell it! Those aren't my numbers, by the way, just an example. I brute-force take mink out - I catch maybe a dozen a year in marten sets - and break close to half of them in the process. I'm not breaking $75 marten on purpose.

I don't consider making trapping equipment meet a certain performance threshold a bad thing

I do, as long as someone far away is setting those standards. It's as stupid as 24 hour checks. If you've managed to convince yourself that you need the Government's blessings to select a trap, good. I haven't and don't appreciate it being pushed on me.

The best part is I can do all of the above without affecting catch numbers.

Your catch numbers, perhaps, but not mine. I can set 110s faster than 120s, so I can set more traps if I set 110s, so I catch more fur. I trap a long way from home in a cold miserable place with not much daylight, and manage to pay for a couple airplanes with fur. I don't know of too many other part-timers doing that, so I think I'll just stick with my methods.

If your checking more than once a month, you'll do just fine with a 1/2 - 3/4 mile trap spacing.

That depends on the area. I have a friend who grew up setting traps in Nov and checking them in Mar with no canabalism. Where he now traps (500 miles from where I trap, BTW) they love packing each other off.

I run a line through good marten habitat and trap every marten I can...

That's one method. Another is to pull when you hit some percentage (60% is a good number) of females.

allows the marten in the buffer zone to repopulate my line for the following season.

That is absolutely critical. Marten are easy to trap out, completely.

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#2100 - 11/29/05 08:54 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
I don't need the govt's blessing to select a trap, but it helps to stay legal, unless your into having the game warden camped out on your line. In B.C., the B.C. Trapping Association works with the govt to set the standards which will meet the 2007 requirements. So unless you can sell all your fur at home, and not on the world market, you may have to update yourself.

The 24hr check doesn't make sense for me either, due the time it takes on sno-go to get to where most of my line is. But there is no way a 1 month or more check is anywhere near ethical or responsible. If your only concern is $75/per pelt for a marten(which by the way is way above the average pelt price) and you don't care how the critter dies to get your money, than your no trapper. That is exactly the kind of stuff the anti's feed off of to try and ban trapping. Alaska may be further north than B.C., but it is not out of reach of bans.

RO frown

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#2101 - 11/30/05 01:33 AM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
but it helps to stay legal

Agreed. Fortunately, I can set any trap I want for any amount of time I want, within season.

But there is no way a 1 month or more check is anywhere near ethical or responsible

How so? What's the difference in leaving it hanging at -40 for a month, or skinning it and putting it in a freezer at 0 for a month? Surely you wouldn't argue that that's unethical, would you? Is it somehow less dead if I get there sooner?

That is exactly the kind of stuff the anti's feed off of to try and ban trapping.

They feed off themselves.

Yes, $75 is the high end. My last years average was closer to $68.

A.I.H.T.S is between Canada, Russia, and the EU. It does not apply to the US or Korea, where most of my marten end up (or so I've been told).

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#2102 - 11/30/05 02:55 PM Re: marten trapping
RiverOtter Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 646
Loc: Monashee Mtns, British Columbi...
I have no problem with your fur hanging from a tree for a month. The longer it hangs, the greater the risk of it being chewed on or eaten, but thats your problem not mine. I just disagree with the whole "I never had a marten get out of my ___ trap and it was dead when I got there, so its a good trap". Checking once a month, even a marten put on dog leash and left in the bush would be dead by the time you got back to check, so it would be a good tool as well, if you could rig up a mechanism to fire it around the martens body somehow.

As an example, last winter I had a marten get into a #3 victor in a bobcat cubby. It was caught by the front leg, which he had broken fighting the trap and he was still very much alive. Not wanting to use my .22(for obvious reasons) I went to my 4-wheeler and grabbed a 160 BMI which was a newer trap, but old style springs and frame. I rigged it onto a stick and sprung it on the marten. The trap hit him just behind the shoulders and I thought it would all be over in about a minute, considering the size of the trap and the temp which was around -20`F. I watched and waited for exactly 2 minutes and he appeared no worse than when the trap first went off and was still cussing me out. I ended up grabbing a nearby stick and finishing the job. I don't know how long it would have taken for him to expire in that coni, and that's not counting how long he had already been in a #3(which from the evidence at the cubby was 24hrs minimum). If I was on the once a month plan, that marten would have been dead, and I could have said that my traps were awsome because he didn't get away.

You can trap with what ever your laws will allow, but for me I refuse to use any killing traps that do not render the quickest end to the critters life. This is my last post on this subject, your mileage obviously varies.

RO

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#2103 - 11/30/05 04:19 PM Re: marten trapping
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2064
Loc: Qc.
Interesting discussion. Once again, it is a fine example of how trapping methods vary due to geographical/meteorogical constraints.

I don't like have things imposed on me. That's why I am in strong disagreement with how Canadian federal and provincial governments have kissed the butts of European markets with regard to the selling of our fur. We often say that our local associations are working WITH the gov't ... In reality they are consulted and the civil servants do as they originally planned. It also seems that if a trap is Canadian made it is easier to get it to be legal. (I'm going to take lumps for writing that.) I hope I'm wrong ,but, until they test the jake trap I'm going to be a hard guy to convince.

European marten (zebelin?) are not subjected to the same capture rules ours are. Muskrats are thrown out in the Netherlands and killed with any and all means. The list goes on. All this "humane" trapping stuff had nothing to do with animals and everything to do with protecting trade markets.

The Chinese are the big boys now. They aren't fussy about how animals are killed.They'll buy our fur if the want it.

My problem with a trap holding a catch for a month is that it is inoperative until the trapper returns. But I'm not going to tell an airplane trapper in Alaska what to do for the same reason I don't want him telling a dogsledding trapper in Quebec what to do. He knows how it works successfully for him.

What trappers do isn't pretty. Life is hard and death isn't a cakewalk either. Ask a person with cancer or a marten in a 160. As trappers we should do what we can - without endangering ourselves. many of the 2007 marten traps are dangerous for kids to use (adults too). No kids means no future trapper

RO: you've signed off on this!

Dusty: I bet you agree with me.

Foss 4936: Catch as many as you can; cleanly, safely, and legally with depleting the resource. A local buyer is quoting 80 Canuck bucks for 22 inches on up! laugh

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#2104 - 11/30/05 05:10 PM Re: marten trapping
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
I don't think we're all on the same page. I'm not trying to come across as arrogant or somehow superior, and I certainly pride myself on not wasting fur. If I was losing fur I'd do something different - I'm sure not trapping just to reduce the marten population. If I were a better communicator I'm sure that would be obvious, as my intention was to share some of my methods for NOT losing fur. To illustrate that, I brought up the fact that some of the country I trap is inaccessable for long periods of time and my methods work over those time periods, therefore should work just as well (but may be unnecessary) over shorter intervals.

I don't plan to check as seldom as I'm sometimes forced to do, I just sometimes can't check as often as I'd like. I trapped off snowmachines for years and didn't have trouble getting back to sets. Then I started flying, and lost some fur to canabalism and bad weather. I figured out ways to prevent that from happening, and thought I could freely share those methods here among trappers. Isn't that what these boards are about?

I too believe we have an ethical responsibility to "humanely" (as much as I hate that word) kill the animals we catch, and I believe my methods do that. I've had bad catches - haven't we all? - and the first thing they do is eat my bucket. I've also seen several hundred marten hanging by non-chewed buckets. 110s, as I set the triggers, are a quick killing trap, regardless of the Canadian Government's opinions. I wouldn't set them if that wasn't the case. Even if I didn't care about humanity as it applies to marten, I'd want them dead as quickly as possible to prevent fur damage and getting pitchy.

Musher: I just set more traps to alleviate that. Yes, it means I buy and take the time to set more traps. I could probably set fewer traps over more country and take home just as many marten, but as I said above I'm not willing to accept the loss of fur.

I have a very hard time disagreeing with anyone who's receptive to the idea that their way may not be the only, or even best, way across the board. You don't have to agree with me, you sure don't have to use my methods, but please don't condemn them from 1000 miles and several weather systems away.

Thanks for being open minded!

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#21758 - 12/13/14 11:40 AM Re: marten trapping [Re: foss4936]
Archive Offline


Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 1116
Dated for Search

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