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#26118 - 07/31/18 06:30 AM Water skills.
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Here are 2 pictures of the South Branch of the Potomac River. This is one of the hot spots where I like to swim and look for treasure. I'll add more later.




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#26130 - 08/01/18 04:48 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Above where I said: Look for treasure, most times you find junk.

I'll comment about the pictures above later.

Long story short, back on July 7th, I was invited to a family picnic up at the 1,200 acre Mount Storm lake. The lake is beside the Mount Storm power plant, employees have access to a private recreation area, that's where we were. They have a really nice area, white sand beach, pavilions with grills, running water, boat docks and little boardwalk things.

The water was warm, 82* that morning, with the air temperature in the low 50's. Nice in the water, but chilly when you'd get out!

Anyway, it was a fairly small picnic, maybe 30 people total? One bunch rolled in with 2 of these new type kayaks, unloaded them on the beach, open and free to use to anyone who wanted to paddle.

I took my mask/snorkel and swim fins. I'd been out snooping around, not finding much. This little boy came to me and asked if he could borrow my mask, I told him to hang tight, I'd just found one. I found the mask on the other side of the boardwalk thing from where we were swimming.

Long story short, I cleaned up the mask as well as I could with my fingers, it had been laying on the bottom of the lake for a while. The little boy put on the mask and stayed in the water playing, and stayed some more. He was still in the water after everything was picked up, cleaned up, loaded up and everyone was ready to go home!

The young man had a blast! And so did the folks playing around in the kayaks for their first time. Little, simple stuff that you can enjoy for a lifetime, and won't cost you a fortune.

From what I was told they blasted off over $20,000 worth of fireworks that night. For me, I'd rather spend $100 for a mask/snorkel, and swim fins, and it won't go up in 30 minutes in a puff of smoke.

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#26131 - 08/01/18 05:44 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
Dfabs Online   content
Member

Registered: 09/18/16
Posts: 67
Loc: Morgantown, West Virginia
That lake is pretty neat, isnít it Tim? You could probably swim in that lake in December if you are brave enough.

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#26133 - 08/02/18 02:35 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
It is a neat lake. Not sure about swimming up there in December? I was up there on January 1st, there was about a foot of snow on the ground with temps in the teens.

The day of the picnic, the power plant had their "cooling towers" in operation. Hard to explain how that works, and that was the first time I've been beyond the parking lot and guard shack. From what I could see driving by, basically they pump water up maybe 60 feet and it flows over a set of baffles, more or less air cooled, and then is discharged back into the lake. Not sure what the actual discharge temperature would be?

Mount Storm is 30 miles from here, the first time that I remember swimming up there, the visibility in the lake would have been around 20 feet or so. We've had a lot of rain and the water was choppy the last time I was up, visibility would have been 5 or 6 feet. There must be lots of channel catfish in the pond, the biggest one that I spotted was only 12 or 14 inches long, lots of little ones.

Talking about these newer style kayaks, they are much easier to keep going in the right direction than a boat like my old closed cockpit whitewater kayak. And a lot more stable too.

You'd be amazed at the number of nimrods that will rent a canoe, never been in one before, and teter-totter down the river, like a stick of driftwood. Those are the folks that lose their goodies. Paddling a canoe is not difficult.

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#26134 - 08/03/18 05:31 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
I am not certain what you mean by a "newer" kayak.

You have to keep the young ones moving. Grandkids are up for a few days right now. We have a zip line set up, sand toys on our beach, as well as a small shower in the water, tonka toys by the patio etc. Campfire last night complete with smoores.

One just got up and is with Granny making hot chocolate.

Fire works are not where I spend my money!

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#26135 - 08/03/18 06:28 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Good deal.

If this link doesn't work, search angling kayak or fishing kayak.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=angling+ka...a54163ce344fef6

I guess you could say that it's a cross between a boat/kayak/canoe. Stable enough to stand up in and fish, very shallow draft, only 3 or 4 inches. And they must track very well. They are the going thing around here now.

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#26138 - 08/03/18 04:36 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
We see some of those here, too.

This is a boat I REALLY want. It's a cross between a canoe and a kayak. They weigh about 30 pounds so are easy to portage. But they are also very pricey.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Oo7GqyN6&id=4E2345BF365185A83C272DA26F0946829B420FAA&thid=OIP.Oo7GqyN6SmoeqbxgDu1wjQHaEL&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fpaddling.com%2fstorage%2fsized%2fstorage%2fimages%2fproducts%2fSwift-Canoe-Kayak%2f141868%2fPack12_d0c879783fc6471abef5d80ce64adb18.png&exph=500&expw=887&q=swift+pak+boat&simid=607986622206509700&selectedIndex=11&ajaxhist=0

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#26140 - 08/04/18 06:32 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
A friend of mine, Doug, runs this outfit, he keeps his boats up at Wardney's house. Sometimes Wardney will help shuttle people, drop them off and get them at the pick up point later.

http://www.kwvww.com/

If the link works, it'll tell you what brand/style boats that he has. They are top of the line, and high dollar! Around $1,200 each.

Above we were talking about how different boats would "track". Wardney told me that Doug put in here below town, went down the creek, into the next county, about 30 miles total, in less than 4 hours. That's making pretty good time.

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#26142 - 08/04/18 04:43 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
Dfabs Online   content
Member

Registered: 09/18/16
Posts: 67
Loc: Morgantown, West Virginia
Those are pretty nice boats. My buddy sells NuCanoe brand fishing kayaks, and they are really nice too, and the nice ones are in that $1000-$1500 price range also.
Thanks for sharing your buddyís business. Iím going to bookmark his page. If I make it up to South Branch to fish, I will most likely be giving him a call. His rates are really reasonable for a DIY float trip.

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#26148 - 08/08/18 05:58 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Brian, that link above won't work for me. Not sure if you're talking about the Kevlar boats with poles, similar to the poles you'd use in a dome tent or what?

I'll tell you, when my buddy Doug first started his little boat rental business, not sure, a couple or 5 years ago? He told me that it was his retirement plan. I know that it was a pain in the ass for him to get all of the permits/licenses that he needed. Seems like the outfitter over in the next county, was a little bit concerned about a little fair and honest competition. And they pushed the issue. Competition is what keeps everyone on the same playing field, fair and square. It's a good thing!

Honestly, I'd never looked at Doug's web site till the other day. I also looked at his prices, and I agree, they are very reasonable. I looked at it like this: Just say you and I would want to float/fish the South Branch, from the Old Field's Bridge to Harmison's, that would be 12 miles on the water. It'd be a 45 minute drive from here to Harmison's.

If I'd have my boat/canoe loaded up, strapped down and ready to go, if you'd meet me here at 7:00 am, by the time you'd follow me down the road, park your truck at Harmison's landing, then drive back up, and unload at the Old Field's Bridge, we'd be lucky to be on the water at 9 O'clock!

With the price of gas now, it'd be pretty tough to drive 2 trucks, 90 minutes each, for less than $50 total.

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#26149 - 08/09/18 09:18 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Here is a link to someone that uses the boat a lot.

https://youtu.be/yjuj3iqSpDc

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#26150 - 08/11/18 07:46 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Well, they sure do make some pretty boats. I watched another video, the guy was at the "Toronto boat show", they showed a canoe/kayak with Canada's flag built/embedded on the bottom, that was a pretty boat.

Brian, let me ask, have you or any of your buds ever actually had one of these Kevlar boats on the water? After looking the boat over, that style of seat looks uncomfortable to me. That would be like sitting on the floor, with not much back support. After an hour or two, that would be tiresome.

Years ago a bunch of us went down the creek, camped overnight and came out the next evening. I remember we had a 13-foot Coleman canoe, 1 or 2, 15-foot canoes, and 17 footer, plus a 12 foot flat bottom. We were loaded down pretty heavy with gear and stuff, but that 13' Coleman was always at the back of the pack. It rode deeper in the water than anything else, and out in still or slack water, you had to work to keep it moving.

I have a 15' Coleman and a 17' Coleman canoe, both have been well worth the money. My opinion, I like the 17-footer best, depending on the stream and conditions. The 17-footer is easier to paddle in still/slow moving water.

Did you notice the guy in the video, demonstrated how he paddled? With a boat 13'6", and a paddle that long, the tip of his canoe would zig-zag with every stroke.

I hardly ever paddle left-handed, (in still water), with my 17-foot canoe, I can make 3 or 4 good strokes with the paddle, and coast 10 or 15 yards.

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#26151 - 08/11/18 10:49 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
I never sat in a Swift nor has anyone i know. But I have watched lots of videos and they track quite well. They only reason I don't have one is because they do not ship. The one I want will cost several pretty pennies and I do not want to shell out much more for shipping.

But it would weigh about 30 pounds!

I love Colemans. I have 3 15 footers. One is scrap due to the plastic being too scraped and punctured. I bought the welding kit but it never was 100% and I do not want to be in a situation far in the bush with a problem. I stripped it down to customize a second. I am not a fan of the ones with the cooler as a middle seat. I preferred the old orange/center bar ones. I can portage those ones on my own. You cannot get the middle seat ones on your shoulders without help. So I removed the middle seat on a new one, added the old center bar, removed the floatation foams from the nose/tail of the old one and added it to the new one. It might weigh another 10 pounds but I portaged it twice yesterday and it still felt good. One of these years it won't!

Yep, they can be pigs in the water but they are tough. stable and carry a load. You can bend them in 2 and they will regain their shape. I have seen it a few times.

I live on a river and we did a little white water yesterday in 2 Colemans. Wifey and her brother flipped once and bro-in-law went for another swim getting out at the end of the run.

We went canoe camping a couple of week ends ago. One Coleman with a 2 h.p. hooked on the side, a Radisoon transom with a 2 h.p. and my Esquif Cargo with a 2.6. The Esquif can tote a 1000 pounds. Great boat We had a great time camping on a sandbar in the middle of a river.

The zigzagging of a canoe is often the fault of a paddler. I can keep a Coleman straight as a pin. I always stroke on the same side.

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#26152 - 08/12/18 07:37 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
I've never watched any videos of the Swift boat on the water. I'd never heard of a Swift boat till you posted the link. I take it that it's a fairly new company?

That's odd that they don't have dealers or wholesalers here and there. Years ago I sold Coleman boats and canoes here at the store. I bought them wholesale from a place in PA, about a 4 hour drive from here. I bought them unassembled, just the hull with the top rail, and a box of parts. The floatation, seats, and all. Don't remember, we could stick a canoe together in less than a half hour. As well as I remember, I sold the 15' canoes for $285, 17's were $315. That was a while back! I do remember for sure, I pissed off the guy down at the sport shop on the other end of town. He had to drop his prices!

I'd like to see one of these Swift boats in person. I'll tell you, you just never see an aluminum canoe on our streams anymore. If the material that the Swift boats are made from won't give and flex like a Coleman or Old Town will, they won't hold up long on our rivers.

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#26153 - 08/12/18 10:30 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
A Swift isn't made for hitting rocks. It is made from graphite. It is a touring boat for canoe camping with lots of portages. The boat is light enough so you can single portage as opposed to going back and forth making several trips.

They are also known to give excellent back support.

They have 3 dealers in Ontario and one in western Canada.

When I contacted one of the dealers, in Ottawa, an employee told me that they were actually going to buy a different brand of canoe from another company about 2 hours away from me. I then spoke to the boss and asked if he would bring a Swift down for me. No way. They don't do that.

That peeved me off. So I didn't order.

They did say they would package it for me if I could organize shipping.

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#26154 - 08/12/18 02:32 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Well, that was probably for the best.

I found a link, seems they are having some big sale, I think this coming weekend? Don't remember where, but they were used and/or demo boats. After looking at the retail prices and even the sale prices, that's still a lot of money for a boat! At those prices, if they don't want to, or refuse to offer service to their customers, I wouldn't deal with them either.

This work computer won't let me copy/paste. ?

I also looked at their list of dealers, seems like there is one in Ohio. A few up around New York. If the Swift boats won't handle rocks, they'd be pretty much worthless on our streams.

If you look at those 2 pictures above, they were taken about 150 yards apart, of course looking upstream and then downstream. The water looks calm, but I'll pretty much guarantee you that, 2 guys in a 17-foot canoe, you will touch a rock(s) going through that section of creek. If the water would be up another foot higher, you're going to get water in your face. It's a good ride. Fun ride.

Above where I said that you almost never see an aluminum canoe on the river here anymore, most of them have been trashed. Torn, ripped and crushed on rocks. Years ago, Dad, my brother and I were out swimming, and I found an aluminum canoe. It was trash, crumpled up under a log in the river. We did recover the carcass. According to the "debris field", we found about everything that they had on board too. From their poles, right on down to a stringer of fish. Pretty sure my brother still has one end of that canoe, about 4 or 5 feet of it.

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#26155 - 08/12/18 03:39 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
"Well, that was probably for the best."

Maybe, but I think there is a Swift pak boat in my future.

My son has an aluminum Radison. Good canoe. They are quite popular around here.

Coleman story: when my wife and I got engaged I obviously bought her an engagement ring. She wanted to buy me a marriage ring. I don't wear rings. So I asked for a Coleman canoe instead and she bought me one. I had it for about 20 years before the plastic wore though. The relationship is still going well after over 37 years together.

In lieu of a wedding ring, I got a ring tattoo on the band finger for 20 bucks. Wifey was quite happy.

We did the same river run today. 2 Colemans and no one went swimming this time.

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#26159 - 08/15/18 07:09 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Well, as long as nobody is hurt, you don't lose anything valuable, or crush the boat on a rock, there's nothing wrong with sinking a canoe. I've been known to flip a canoe on purpose from time to time. Get all hot and sticky paddling, there's no better way to cool off!

While I'm thinking about it, you'd be surprised how many folks go for a float down the river without a "dry bag". A bag or container where you can keep all of your valuables safe. Years ago I bought a waterproof canvas bag to keep my stuff dry.

A while back I bought some junk off of a man, he had a "dry bag" can-like thing, about the size of a gallon jar, with a screw on lid. It's got straps and all, I've never used it.

A few years ago, I found a girl's billfold, driver's license, and all of her paperwork, well as I remember it had 60 or 80 bucks cash inside. It took me a while to run her down, but she got it all back! And she was very happy!

About 2 weeks ago I found a high-dollar cell phone on the bottom of the creek. It's probably trash, but I haven't had it checked yet. Sometimes they are trash, sometimes they can be rebuilt. We shall see.

But I'll bet whoever lost the phone, wishes that they'd have had a $25 dry bag.

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#26160 - 08/15/18 08:20 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Another canoe story.

Last year my son and 3 of his buds wanted to do a little white water. My son has a little experience and the others had none.

They had me drive them upriver from home where I let them off. The plan was for them to spend one day paddling, one night in the bush and arrive in the yard the day after.

I wasn't keen on the idea but the kid was 24 and what do I know. I lent them a Coleman, a kayak and the other bud had a kayak.

After we had unloaded the truck and they were getting ready to leave I noticed a couple of things. The first was that none of their stuff was tied down. The second was that there wasn't a bail bucket to be seen. A quick father/son conversation ended up with things being tied and mess kit cups becoming bailers.

Two days later they arrived home in a mess. My son had his underwear on his head and he was severely flybitten. His buds were sun burned and scraped. All were famished.They all had a story.

It seems that less than a half hour after starting they unwittingly went over a 5 foot waterfall. They lost most of the food, some gear, my son lost his hat (which explained the underwear) the fly dope, sunscreen, the bailers and other stuff. They did recoup my sons brand new tent I had gotten him as a grad present. The Coleman got wedged in the falls by the water pressure and they thought they were going to have to leave it there. Eventually it popped out on its own.

The boat is fine.

As they continued, One guy found an apple floating in the river which he ate. He later found out that no one had brought apples!

They had 4 straight hours of rapids to navigate.

Thye could not find a good spot to camp on shore as the banks were too steep. They camped on the river rocks, in a wet tent, in wet sleeping bags. There was no good dry wood around so the fire was a smoker and not a heater. The temperature dropped to freezing (not unusual in June) and they had to spoon to keep warm.

The bugs and sun slayed them during both days.

They had a blast.

This year I drove them higher in the same river. Still 4 guys but one newbie. They all had kayaks. They also have much more experience.

One guy arrived at the house early. He had gotten badly sun burned. My wife asked him if he had sun screen. He didn't but he was certain someone else would. She asked if he had fly dope. He didn't but he was certain someone else did. She stopped asking questions.

My son arrived with the other guys and the only thing he borrowed was my Spot locator beacon.

Driving them higher meant that we had to pay a road access of $5.00. Between 4 young men, who all have good jobs, they could not scrape together 5 bucks cash! They expected to pay with their debit cards. So I paid.

After unloading the truck and trailer, they realized that one guy had forgotten their paddle! Three guys stayed behind to portage the stuff to the river while my son and I returned to the park entrance to phone my wife so she could bring a spare paddle.

At the guardians camp we needed 5 bucks for the phone call....

While waiting for Wifey/Mom to arrive with the paddle, son decides to move the truck and trailer. He backed into the guardians parked car. It was a brand new SUV.

They finally got going by late afternoon.

One of the guys was a slow learner. My son had checked out the first rapids on foot. He opted to portage. The slow learner didn't want to do the leg work so he just shot the rapids. He made it to the first curve where he wiped out. His kayak did the water roll, he lost the kayak skirt while swimming for his life, and the gear got soaked.

The video is quite entertaining.

The rest of the trip was much better except for the skirtless guy having to bail all the time. He slept wet for the second time. Good fire wood was available so they had a great fire where the wet guy set fire to/melted one of his shoes.

I hope not, but I bet they are going back next year.

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#26161 - 08/16/18 08:45 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: musher]
FLSH ETR Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Cudahy, Wisconsin,USA
Geez dude! Send that whole script to Hollywood. You'll get rich and famous, and we'll all be able to see the whole story on the big screen!! What a fantastic read. I know I've done some dumb things in my youth. Glad I'm past them years. Now I just do old dumb stuff! crazy Thanks for sharing.

Frank.
_________________________
"The only constant----is change."

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#26165 - 08/18/18 07:04 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Very interesting. It sounds like a fun ride. 4 hours of rapids.

That is funny about the 4 guys not having $5. And $5 for a phone call.

I've seen pictures of the river near your house, not sure how far upstream they put in? Or what the river looks like up there? Yes, that would be nice if one of the young men would create a U-tube video, so we could all enjoy the action.

I'd be willing to bet the $5 gate fee, that the boys hit it again next summer too.

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#26166 - 08/18/18 07:46 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
Dfabs Online   content
Member

Registered: 09/18/16
Posts: 67
Loc: Morgantown, West Virginia
Tim, what does South Branch look like right now? Have you guys been getting a good bit of rain? My boss and my next door neighbor are supposed to go up and float it on Wednesday and Thursday this week.

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#26167 - 08/18/18 08:40 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
They do have some video but I don't think they showed it around too much.

The part of the video I found the most entertaining is the slow learner. My son had checked out the rapid, opted out in favour of the portage. Slow boy says, "F that, I'm going." Son says at the first rock you have to take a hard right or the current will force you left into the rocks. Slow boy takes off, does not take a hard right, kayak goes left into the rocks, boy has a look of terror in his eyes, tries to grab onto rocks, kayak starts going backwards into rapids, rolls and rolls, boy appears floundering and ends up on some rocks while the kayak rolls down stream. He had lost his paddle, too, which they found. Slow boy has to jump into the water and float to get out of there. A good butt bruising went on.

All the while new boy is laughing like a maniac and wondering what he got himself into.

These guys are super athletic. The snow board (one guy is sponsored and does the tours), the mountain bike all the time and they skate board filming themselves doing break neck nonsense. One guy can run take two steps on a vertical wall like the Matrix. My son can do a back flip while standing beside you. They just don't realize how fragile your body really is and that stuff happens really quick.

It is a way different river higher up. The source is a huge lake with a dam. They are much closer to the dam. It was a solid half hour of highway with another 6 km of bush road.

The problem isn't so much the size of the rapids. It is the fact that they do not stop. When you have stretches of calm water, you can bail, take a peak around the bend and catch your breath. There, you are committed for the long haul unless you can do the fish behind a large rock.

The money thing kills me. Cash is obsolete to them.

Son is on his way back from a cross Canada road trip. Girl friend and he slept in the Corolla the whole trip even though they had a tent. Prior to leaving, they removed the back seat and installed a small mattress (which they took from one of girlfriends brother!)Their dog slept in the front seat, too.

First day gone they phone home. Son forgot their itinerary. Mom had to go to their house, get the computer, get the itinerary, and send it to them. First campsite, after 15 hours of driving, is full. They get the ok to sleep in the parking lot. They go for a hike to see some pictographs on Lake Superior and take the dog off leash. The dog rolls in crap ..... They have to walk back to the car to get the training dummy to rinse the dog off in the lake, to go back to the car to get shampoo because the rinsing didn't go so well, to get back to make supper to realize they forgot the can opener (needed for supper in a tin) to sleep with a wet dog in a Corolla.

They have hiked a lot, surfed, visited tons of skate parks and seen a good chunk of Canada. In there they had more adventures and a few misadventures. They have had a blast. As long as they get home in one piece, we are happy.

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#26168 - 08/18/18 10:35 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
The South Branch of the Potomac is running good, should be a nice trip. We've had a lot of hit/miss rain, a friend that lives 5 miles from here had 2.5 inches the other evening, here, we had enough to sprinkle the windshield. Talking to some of my friends, we've had over 2 feet of rain since April. More water than older folks can ever remember.

I guess this "plastic money" is here to stay. Just thinking about it, where did the boys think they'd find an ATM along the river? I deal with credit/chip cards at work everyday, if someone would lose their card (it happens very often) anyone that finds it can drain that account. A girl that I know had her card stolen a while back, she got burnt for $500, before she could have the card deactivated. Makes you wonder.

The way that you've described the young men, they're all young and tough, and think that they are invincible. Give them another 5 or 10 or 15 years, they will realize just how fragile the human body is.

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#26170 - 08/18/18 02:51 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
"The way that you've described the young men, they're all young and tough, and think that they are invincible. Give them another 5 or 10 or 15 years, they will realize just how fragile the human body is."

You have that right. My son certainly doesn't fret about loosing skin. He takes some terrible falls skate boarding and the asphalt always wins. Their knees and other joints are going to hurt from all the pounding when they land. But hey, what do we know

I have booboos now because of stuff done when younger. I think we all do unless we were bubble wrapped.

Another Coleman story; Here is why I asked my then fiancee for a Coleman instead of a ring.
Way back then there was an advertisement of a RamX Coleman canoe being thrown off a roof. Buddy bought one. We used it a lot. We even used it stupid. I'm talking about 3 guys wearing waders, shotgu8ns, shells, decoys in the middle of the St.Lawrence River stupid. Never had a problem.

We were also into doing white water and the rest of us too poor to own a canoe rented them on site.

One weekend we were canoe camping and shooting rapids. Buddy who owned the Coleman wrapped it around a rock. It was an R3 and he missed it. There were a couple of canoe carcasses wrapped up in the same area. Buddy and partner made it to the side but the canoe stayed there. We could not even get close to get a rope on it. As we were figuring out how we were going to divvy the load and 2 extra passengers among us, the stuck Coleman started bouncing more and more. Finally it popped out and rolled over and over out of the rapids to a spot we could get to.

We hauled it on shore and checked it out. The metal bars were bent all to heck. Using rocks and branches as pry bars we got the metal straightened out in a canoe shape. The plastic snapped back into shape on its own.

Buddy still has the canoe and it still works fine. Tough boats.

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#26175 - 08/19/18 08:05 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
I'm not sure what year bubble wrap was invented? But I never had any as a kid either!

Above we were talking about hauling a load in a boat, I'll tell you this real quick.

It's been somewhere around 15 years ago, maybe 20? My buddies Nick and Skiddy and I ganged up here at the house early one morning. About 3 hours before daylight early. We were going deer hunting, and we had a plan!

Long story short, the 3 of us were up near the top of the mountain before daylight, and split up. Nick went south, I went north and Skiddy would be in the middle, that's the way we started anyway. The plan was that we'd not shoot any small bucks, and we'd meet at the river at dark.

This was years ago, we didn't have radios or cell phones, we just split up, and hunted. I didn't bump into Skiddy or Nick all day.

Even longer story short, I met Nick and Skiddy at the river, a little bit after dark. There we were, the 3 of us standing on the river bank, with Nick's 10-point buck between us, and 1 canoe!

It was the 2nd week of buck season, so it would have been the first week of December. The river was up and muddy, and it was flowing pretty keen!

Nick's deer was stiff as a board, it was a chore getting it in the canoe. Head sticking out one side, and feet over the other.

So, we've got the 3 of us, that's 2, 4, 600 pounds. 130 pound deer, plus $1,500 worth of rifles, and one canoe! We were all wearing long johns, 3 or 4 layers on top.

We had a load in the canoe! I remember when I got in the back of the canoe, it bottomed out. I'll never forget Skiddy said: Well take that ole Browning and shove us off. I did.

Skiddy is young and tough, he was up front paddling hard on the left side, I was in the back, just keeping it angled a little bit. Looking upstream we were going right to left. Nick was in the middle holding the light. We slid across the river, just pretty as you please.

Thinking about it now, that was pretty stupid. If all 3 of us weren't comfortable with the deal, we'd never tried it in the first place. No harm done, that's the main thing!

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#26179 - 08/20/18 03:13 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Another canoe story.

Wifey and I had just started going out. I wanted to take her canoeing but didn't own a canoe. Luckily a buddy had found a sunken one. He had a scuba kit so he dove down, went under the canoe and breathed there for a while. The canoe floated up and he was able to haul it out of the water and home.

He assured me it was in perfect shape.

I borrowed it and it did look good. Barely a scratch on it.

We went on the same river as the rolled Coleman my other buddy hammered back into shape.

All was well until we took in too much water on a rapid and sank. No biggie and we got the canoe out of the water with no problem BUT it was now much heavier. The air pockets obviously leaked and water had gotten in there.

I had a VW Rabbit then and we got it on the roof to go home. The roof rack was the type that hooked onto the door gutters. Yep, car doors had gutters back then. While driving the dirt road back, the roof rack ripped out of the gutters and the canoe plowed a nice furrow on the hood of my Rabbit.

I guess the extra weight was too much.

Thank God it didn't happen on the highway.

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#26184 - 08/24/18 06:55 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Yes, that would be bad news to lose a boat on the main road. Sounds like it was bad enough the way it happened.

If a person would have a canoe like that today and the air pockets leaked, you could drill a hole and fill them full of that spray foam stuff.

Neat the way your buddy floated the canoe, a gallon of air would displace 8 pounds. So it wouldn't take many exhales to float a canoe.

Years ago we recovered a metal framed picnic table from the bottom of the river. Big Donnie and I were out fishing one day, and I noticed it laying on the bottom, upside down.

I rigged up a sort of frame, strapped to 2, 50-gallon plastic barrels. Rigged up 2 come-a-longs, one on each end of the table, cranked it up off the bottom and towed it upstream with the boat.

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#26186 - 08/24/18 03:50 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
I have a table story, too.

The first time my eldest brought the boyfriend home we went canoeing. I saw a picnic table way up in the alders. It had been washed down from the north with the high water of spring.

We got it down and towed it to the truck. We had to tie the canoes together to get enough power to tow the table.

It was a lot of work to get it down and even more to tow it.Putting two canoes and a table in/on the truck was pretty imaginative stuff, also. Boyfriend thought I was nuts!

I still have the table and daughter married the boyfriend!

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#26187 - 08/24/18 07:46 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
"Picnic Table Snatchers, INC." lol. It's just one of those things, you see it there free for the taking, what do you do?

And I agree the one that I found on the bottom of the river was a lot more trouble than it was worth! But, it's a good table. The one that we recovered was made with 3" channel iron for the legs. 2" oak boards for the top and seats. About all 4 of us could do to load the rascal on the trailer, all waterlogged and all. But we got it.

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#26202 - 08/31/18 06:32 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
This is the same picture at the top of the thread, I'll try to explain what makes this area neat. Running short on time, I'll add more from the work computer.



Ok, for the last day of the month, I figured I'd have more free time today. Not.

Notice that little ledge across the river, that is the South Branch of the Potomac River. There really isn't much in the picture to give you a size comparison.
The river is, give or take, 50 yards wide in that picture. The rock below the ledge is around 8 feet wide at the waterline.

But the ledge is some kind of slate, it's been there forever. It's polished up, smooth as can be. Years ago our family and friends would go down to the same spot and picnic. Have a little hot dog roast, and play in the river.

That ledge is shaped almost like a bench, no matter how short or tall you are, you can find a spot where you can soak. Back when I was a kid, Mom loved to go out there and just sit, and let the water do it's magic.

I took my girlfriend to the same spot a while back, the water was warm, (she said it was cold). But at the time we had, like a 6 inch ribbon of water flowing across the ledge, where we were sitting. I wouldn't try to guess how many 100's of gallons of water were flowing across each of us per minute. I will tell you this, it was very relaxing!

I'll add more later.


Edited by redsnow (08/31/18 07:59 PM)

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#26203 - 09/01/18 05:09 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Very pretty spot!

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#26204 - 09/01/18 07:20 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
New story that happened this afternoon.

It's a beautiful day and I popped in to the house for a minute and caught the tail end of the phone ringing. Wife calls back and it is my son on his girl friends phone.

Turns out he had been motoring around in the canoe with a buddy and the dog. It is a very windy day and being on the water isn't a good idea. But the wind can come up suddenly around here. I wasn't even aware that it was windy at all until we got my boat in the water.

They flipped in the middle of the river. It is about a km. wide and has a very good current but no rapids. The dog swam to shore and they could not tow the boat swimming. They were afraid of losing the dog so they went to shore, too.

He had called the girl friend with the last of his phone before it died. They made it to the car ,where she had gone to after the call, and now was asking if we could come and give him a hand.

He is a good 20 minutes away and we have nothing ready but in about 30 minutes we are at the waters edge.

Son and I go out in my small freighter. We tell the others to stay put and that we would call if we need to meet them down river. Cell coverage worked there so girl friend kept her phone and we took Wifey's old flip one. I had a sat phone in case, too.

It is rough water. Rough enough that I start asking what he was thinking going out on such water.

Down a ways we see red on a beach. It is his gas can way up on shore. Someone had put it there. There are no trails out of the beach. We see where a boat had been dragged onto shore but it had a keel. His boat does not.

We continue down river and we see a group of canoes way off. Son starts twirling the paddle in the sun so the the reflection will be seen. It doesn't take long for a response and we motor to the group.

They are 3 couples from Europe, all with rented gear from a local outfit and they are on a 3 day paddle down stream. They had the lost canoe and were drifting with it not really knowing what to do. They also had a water bottle. They were looking for the people/bodies that canoe belonged to!

After thanking them and sharing coordinates, as well as a strategy for getting back any other equipment they might find, we towed the upside down boat to shore. That was not easy.

At shore we were able to flip the boat over and empty it. The motor was still attached and one seat was still there. Lost are the second seat, beach chairs, horseshoe game, oars/paddles, and a hat.

On shore son tries to phone girl friend to say where we are and that all is good. No answer. He tries several times over a good stretch of 15 minutes or so. He wants them to come get us on a logging road which would mean a rough portage. I want to tow it all back.Still no answer. After a few more attempts, finally an answer!

Girl friend had left the phone in the car while standing on shore with Wifey and buddy. It was my wife saying, "It's odd they haven't tried to call us," that made her realize the phone wasn't within hearing distance!

We got back in one piece. It was a 3.5 hour adventure. The flipped canoe was about 3 or 4 km from where the adventure started.

I asked son if he had a knife. No. Matches? No. Bag to keep the cell phone dry? No. He was totally unprepared. Being minutes from his home made him complacent and careless. At least they had on their life jackets because buddy swims like a rock. He said he would have drowned without it.

Wifey and I are a little discouraged. We are also thrilled that all ended well. But we are really hoping that several lessons were learned. The loss of a few hundred dollars of stuff and maybe a dead cell phone might help.

He must be still stripping down the motor right now. I let him know that his 9 lives in water are getting pretty used up. He didn't disagree. He said he would never have gone out in this wind with the girl friend. But he didn't want to disappoint his city buddy. Buddy is also a skate boarder and they met through competitions they were both attending. Son said that it was all over in 20 seconds. They took a wave head on, canoe got swamped, a few side waves, and it was full. Once full it rolled and that was it.

It was floating but only about 12 inches of it or less was sticking out of the water.

I'm hoping the tourists are fine and that they continued to hug shore real tight as they drifted.


Edited by musher (09/02/18 06:16 AM)

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#26205 - 09/02/18 07:05 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Hmmmm, I'm sure Mom had a discussion with her little boy also!

I get the feeling that your Son knew that he shouldn't have been out on the water too. You know how young guys are!

Not sure how far the young men had to swim? But I'm sure watching the boat drift out of sight, that should have settled in pretty hard! And I figure that he was doing a lot of thinking while he was screwing around with the motor too. Just 24 hours ago, the motor was running smooth.

Whoever it was that lost their favorite hat, he'll remember that for years and years!

Well, no one was hurt, that's the main thing!

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#26206 - 09/02/18 10:37 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Originally Posted By: redsnow


Whoever it was that lost their favorite hat, he'll remember that for years and years!

Well, no one was hurt, that's the main thing!


It was sonnny boy's hat. At least he didn't have his underwear on his head this time. It was too windy for flies to be a factor!

Motor isn't working yet but he hadn't done the carb. He tried without doing the carb and it fired but not more.

Mom leaves the butt tearing to me in such circumstances. It's a good cop bad cop thing.

He was pretty subdued on the phone this morning. It might be because I called him on the girl friends .... phones are pricey. I bet his is in a bag of rice right now.

I don't know how far they swam. I would guess a half km. if he was in the middle. At least they swam on the side the car was on.

Ditto on the no one hurt. That is all that really matters. But the water is quite warm and there are lots of shallow spots. Had they stayed with the boat they porbably would have fared better after drifting a few km.'s. But the dog couldn't swim forwever.

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#26207 - 09/03/18 07:30 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Subdued is a good word!

I hate to say it like this, but. . . the more times your son pulls on that starter cord, the better! He will remember that for the rest of his life.

Thoughts going through his head: (Motor was working good the other day, started on the 4th or 5 pull, now I've been dickin around with it for 2 days, and nothing but a sputter.) (I hate this new hat!)

Lucky that the dog swam to the same side of the river too. Or that would have been another chore.

I can imagine the father and son chat that took place. Get out there about 150 yards off shore, with the motor running, almost being like under the "Cone of Silence." lol.

But, anyway that you look at it, the boys are lucky.

Talking about the tourists, can you imagine what was going through their minds? Find an empty boat in the middle of the river, and not a person in sight. That would make you wonder!

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#26208 - 09/04/18 04:49 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
The motor still isn't starting! It will sputter if he pours gas right into the piston and the plug sparks well. I told him to take the plug out, turn it upside down over night, and crank it without the plug once in a while/

The tourists were looking for someone alive or dead. They told us. They were as happy to see as as we were to see them.

The phone is officially dead, too.

He was over for supper last night. We didn't talk about it besides the motor. One sister was in town and I figure they chatted.

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#26209 - 09/04/18 03:20 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
Hal Offline
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Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Get some 180 proof isopropal (or the best you can find) alcohol, dump all the gas out and rinse the whole system with the alcohol. The alcohol will absorb the water. I had to do that with my daughter's lawnmower this summer. She let water get in her gas can and poured that in the lawnmower.
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#26210 - 09/04/18 05:28 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Thanks, Hal. I gave him the info.

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#26211 - 09/05/18 12:01 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Hopefully nothing is warped or cracked. You didn't say, but I assume that the motor was running, until it hit the water. That's a very big temperature change, quick, on the cylinder and piston and all.

My brother in law, Mike tinkers with small engines, he told me years ago that he'd use WD-40 to get them fired up. Take the plug out and give it a good spurt, screw in the plug, and then crank on it. Just talked to Mike this morning, never thought about asking him about the outboard.

Here just thinking about it, it's one thing if you're out on the water and a storm blows in, gets windy and nasty out, there's not much you can do. Beach the boat if you need too.

But it's a whole different thing when it's nasty and crappy out, and still decide to set sail.

But I'm sure the young men were having fun, till the boat turned belly up. But that had to be pretty tough watching the boat and all of their stuff drifting out of sight. I'll bet even the dog was standing there on the river bank, thinking: Next time, I'm staying with Mommy. lol

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#26263 - 09/24/18 11:09 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
I am just back from a yearly weekend road trip duck opener with my son. We met up with a gang of my high school buddies and my son-in-law. A few beers were shared and tongues were loosened. I now have the full story of the flipped canoe. Here are the highlights:

1- He knew it was too rough once he was out. He had a choice of beelining to shore and walking towing it out by foot or going for it to get back. Her chose to go for it.

2- the wind was now at his back so the troughs poured water into the front of the boat as he peaked on the waves.

3- they bailed with hands and hats as the canoe filled with each wave/trough.

4- buddy who can't swim much DID NOT have his life jacket on. Sonny did.

5- when the canoe rolled and flipped buddy crawled onto the overturned canoe and put on the life jacket.

6- son was afraid of the dog drowning so they left the boat.

7- son held his cell phone high as they flipped and tread water. He called the girlfriend from in the water. He then needed to put the cell phone in his pocket to swim to shore.

8- buddy didn't seem stressed when I saw him but I guess I was wrong. He has a Facebook post describing the event, is now a "always wear your life jacket" guy, and actually got a tattoo of a life jacket with the words life saver!

9- I don't think it's going to happen again. (At least I hope so.) All my buds gave him grief in a big way. They also saw the kayaking adventure video. They gave him more heck .... but sonny was safe in that situation even if a couple of his friends were not.

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#26275 - 09/28/18 06:01 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Well, I'm glad to hear that your buds gave the young guys a good butt chewing. It seems that sometimes, a close friend's advice will make more of an impression, than that of Mom & Dad.

Above, when I first read that your Son was wearing his life jacket, I had a feeling, he was thinking that things might get just a little bit wild. Very few people wear their PFD in calm water.

These new PFD's aren't as bulky and as uncomfortable to wear as some of the older ones.

But let me ask what's the deal with the outboard?

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#26289 - 10/01/18 10:12 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
Son always wears the life jacket and uses his seat belt,too. He was raised that way and he feels weird when he doesn't.

The outboard needed $135. He didn't want me looking at it and he didn't want to continue cranking. It was just water logged. A bit more elbow grease and more of Hal's alcohol would have gotten it going. He had taken it apart twice and was sure something had cracked.

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#26309 - 10/04/18 05:49 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
That's good to hear that your Son always wears his PFD, and seat belt! I shouldn't comment anymore, so I won't.

Just thinking about his buddy that swims like a rock, he's the one that should have strapped on his life jacket first thing.

I just got on a little deal with a man, I traded him my boat trailer for 3 PFD's, new fuel tank and a paddle, even up. Places where I like to take my boat, the trailer is a pain. Easier to just load the boat on the truck and go. It's a 12 foot flat bottom, I can load it alone.



I'm glad to hear that the outboard sputtered back to life. Reading between the lines, sounds like most of the $135 was for labor.

I skimmed through one of the local "junk/trader" magazines the other day, found a 7.5 HP outboard for, well, the man is asking $200. I don't need it. Boating season is pretty much over for this area, he lives about 2 hours away. My niece's little girl will be going to school in that area, next semester. I'll wait till about the first of December, and offer him about $150. Never know? I might be able to get it for $100 cash.

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#26315 - 10/06/18 06:41 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
One of my facebook friends posted this picture the other day, he's tuna fishing off the coast of Prince Edward Island, Canada. He made a comment, the Captain of the boat told him, something like this: "There's not a fish out there worth your life." That water does look pretty rough.



I just read Charlie's facebook post again, he's fishing out of North Lake marina, far northeastern tip of Prince Edward Island. Nearest town is Souris. He said the blue fin tuna would get up to 10 feet, and weigh 1,000 pounds.

To quote him, the Captain said: It ain't worth your life.

Apparently, a lobster boat went down a week or so before, said they'd lost 2 of the 3 man crew.

Charlies lives down in the next county, but owns property up on the mountain where I have trail cameras #2 and #3.

Next time I talk to him, I'll ask what a trip like that costs. He caught one the other day, not sure what it weighed, but it was a big fish! He's been posting some pretty pictures.


Edited by redsnow (10/06/18 09:55 AM)

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#26319 - 10/07/18 04:03 PM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content


Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2015
Loc: Qc.
i had a buddy that was a tuna/lobster fisherman. He fished out of the Magdeline Islands and Nova Scotia. I lobster fished with him for a month and decided it was not for me. He caught monster tuna that sold for $10,000 and over. It was a tag system and it varied for 5 to 7 tags but you could buy other peoples tags.

Rough way to earn a living and dangerous as all get out. When it blew 30 knots, he would not lobster fish. He went higher for tuna.

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#26355 - 10/28/18 08:44 AM Re: Water skills. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Seems like GoogleEarth was down for a few days. I zoomed in on the Magdeline Islands, there are different spellings. Looks to be about 60 miles north of Prince Edward Island. Those islands appear as a speck on the globe, but they are bigger than they appear!

I was surprised at the population of some of the towns. And lots of crop fields too.

Above where you were talking about selling a fish for $10,000. You know a lot of folks think about that, and they're thinking, go out and catch 50 or $70,000 worth of fish, that's pretty good wages for a season.

I always try to look at both sides of everything, they don't realize that every time that the man pulls his boat up to the gas station, he's going to pull out his checkbook and write a check for up in the thousands. Look at fuel prices today.

I've only been out on the ocean a couple of times. Years ago, (a man that I worked with) and best friend's Mom was dating a guy that owned a boat. Tom kept his boat at Wachapreague, VA. Tom took us out a couple times tuna fishing. As well as I remember, the biggest tuna that we caught were up around 60 pounds or so.

His boat was rigged up with outriggers, trolling 5 or 6 baits. We'd take turns reeling in the fish. I remember that one time, I was standing at the back of the boat cranking in a fish, Tom told me to hang onto that pole, said he'd just paid $600 for that reel. Stiff little rods, maybe 5-foot long, with those little rollers on each eye.

We always had a good time.

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