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#27548 - 04/24/20 10:12 AM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2402
Loc: Qc.
Stores no longer bag here. The customer bags it themselves in their own bags. Some stores have piles of boxes and the customer can grab a box. If the store has shopping carts, scanned bought goods are returned to the cart and the customer takes the cart out to their cars to pack.

Carts are cleaned before coming back into the store.

Since cash is not accepted, the plastic card device is outside the glass. There is zero contact between employee and customer.

I'm expecting this to last longer than 6 months. A vaccine is the only thing, i believe that will get things back to normal. And it will be a new normal. Some things are now gone the way of the dodo bird.

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#27549 - 04/24/20 03:51 PM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: musher]
FLSH ETR Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 1200
Loc: Cudahy, Wisconsin,USA
The cheapest 'glass' setup I've seen is a 3X3 foot piece of plexiglass, with a 12X6 inch (ish) cut out at the bottom, like a bank tellers window. Two 'L' brackets screwed to the bottom are the legs. A weight on the horizontal part of the bracket, perhaps plumbing/gutters lead weights. It's placed directly in front of the clerk. Goods get slid behind the glass from one end, and out the other. And, masks are worn to keep from spreading the virus if you are infected. They do little, if any, to protect you while wearing one. And, if you have a beard or mustache, the mask will do nothing. Geez, that's how Hitler almost died in the trenches as a soldier. The gas snuck in through his mustache area. That's why he began to wear that short cropped one we see. We're dealing with microscopic organisms here, and they're gonna find a way into you, no matter what you do, unless you STAY AT HOME!!! smile

Frank.
_________________________
"You're never too old to learn something stupid."

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#27551 - 04/24/20 07:43 PM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
Mike Conrad Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 272
Loc: Sheffield, Ohio
There are big differences between wearing a gas mask in a highly concentrated and contaminated environment and wearing a respirator mask (N-95 type) to restrict the movement of virus loaded mucus. In the mustard gas scenario you are in an environment totally contaminated, one breath will introduce toxins into the respiratory system. A properly sealed whole face mask would be required. In our current Covid-19 environment that level of contamination is drastically lower.

While respirators are more appropriate for those infected with any respiratory virus, they DO offer protection from ingesting mucus droplets loaded with any virus emanating from a cough, sneeze or breathing. Maybe not 100%, but significantly better than nothing. As far as beards and masks go, while there are no definitive studies on the subject, there is an assumption that there is little, to any, difference in infections either with a beard or without. The moisture (with viruses) in the air clings to hair and beards where the virus weakens considerably.

Something not coming out in information from Federal, State and Local Governments is how PPE actually works to prevent transmissions of viruses. First, viruses are very, very small. Smaller than the microscopic openings in "surgical" gloves and any respirator mask. While these openings are larger than the viruses one is trying to stop, the viruses can NOT transit these openings without being contained within a medium such as mucus, blood, etc. Technically, you are not restricting the virus, you are restricting the fluids that the virus needs to survive outside of its host.

Respirators and gloves are only as good as the techniques you use to wear them, and most importantly on how they are removed. Masks should be fit snug around the nose/face area. Gloves extended to designed distances, some just above and some just below the wrist. Upon removal, one gloved hand should pinch the outer side of the glove on the other hand and pealed back to the finger tips and removed. While the gloved hand holds the removed glove, the thumb and then the index finger are placed under the remaining glove and the interior of the glove is pinched, rolled back and pealed off. Gloves are inside out (one glove inside the other) and you then throw them into the trash. Wash hands and then remove the mask. If tied on, remove the top tie first, fold mask down, remove lower tie, grab the mask, pull it away from your body and throw into the trash. If two elastic bands are used, reach behind your head and remove the TOP band, pull it over your head and pull the mask down. Reach behind your head again and remove the lower band up over your head and grab the mask. DO NOT allow the elastic to snap at any time. Wash hands again, and then take a shower to remove any virus that may be in your hair, beard or on you skin. Do NOT use gloved or unwashed hands to remove mask, you are defeating the purpose of protecting yourself.

Finally, there is a drawback to wearing respirators and gloves in that a lot of folks adopt a false sense of security. First, gloves that the public (and trappers) use are NOT surgical gloves. They are not, and have not been, sterilized. They are designed to prevent fluids from being introduced into cuts and nailbeds. Even if you wear gloves you will still spread bacteria and viruses to surfaces. Once you touch anything with your gloves they may be contaminated. Point here is that I have witnessed folks with gloves on in the grocery store then touch their face, glasses, etc. thinking they have gloves on so they are ok.

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#27552 - 04/25/20 05:38 PM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 10237
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Thanks Mike. The best I've see is someone holding their glove in their teeth while they work barehanded.
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#27553 - 04/25/20 10:41 PM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 3035
Loc: WV
Hmmm, there's a lot to comprehend above.

I'll tell you, this store just isn't set up like some big stores in big towns. In high crime areas and all. I've never calculated the total square inches of floor space that I do have. I have 6 isles, you've all been in smaller stores. But this is more of a hands-on operation.

I touch people and people touch me everyday. Handing out change and whatnot. As a rule, I touch just about every credit card that we use.

As far as my counter top/ working area, it's the same as any other store in the area. (As of 8 weeks ago.) The counter top is the same at the co-op, the restaurants, the banks, the courthouse, post office, parts store and anywhere else. I've been in other stores where the employees were boxed in, more or less in a cubicle. I wouldn't like that at all. I noticed the other day, I'm looking more at people's hands and money, more than I am looking at their eyes. I don't like that either.

I called the glass place yesterday, the man I talked to before wasn't at the shop, so, I'll call them back Monday. I will promise you that I'm not going to be working behind these shower curtains by the end of next week. We'll have plexiglass or real glass one way or the other.

A man just told me that he'd just came back from New Jersey, his friend tested positive for the virus. The guy before him was holding his credit card in his teeth. My hands are still moist, from washing. Going back around the place with bleach water.

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#27554 - 04/25/20 11:30 PM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3695
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
I guess what troubles me more about this situation than anything else. Is the ignorance of the general public and there apparent refusal to educate themselves. This manifests itself with any number of subjects. Politicians playing the Armageddon card is another but I won't comment on that.

PPE for example, Mike gave a lot of accurate information concerning donning/removal and why they are effective. I'll take bets that there isn't 2% of the population that knows proper usage and limitations. Used incorrectly they are just providing a false sense of security.

Another is the touting of the necessity of a vaccine to return to "normal". There is no guarantee that there will ever be a vaccine. HIV has been with us for almost 40 years now, there is no vaccine. The "Flu Shot" (Influenza B Victoria/H1N1) is ~50 & <40 % effective respectively, enough to blunt a outbreak. Certainly not near the 100% implied by talking heads and professionals that know better.

SARS-CoVid19 isn't going anywhere.It will more than likely become a seasonal virus that we need to learn to live with. The shut down was imposed to reduce the infection rate so as to not overwhelm the medical system. That has been accomplished.

Time to get on with our lives. Just use common sense

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#27555 - 04/26/20 12:28 AM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
Mike Conrad Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 272
Loc: Sheffield, Ohio
Redsnow - You, and others in your situation can protect yourself and your customers with some simple precautions. The latest information that I have seen about Covid-19 is pretty similar with most respiratory viruses, with the noted exception of how contagious this particular virus appears to be (as of right now). Again, as of right now, it appears that this virus has the same strengths and weaknesses; easily transmitted by sneezing and coughing and by EXTENDED close proximity with others. Just read a report where surface contamination, while a concern, does not transmit the virus easily. AND, while this virus is known to live on surfaces for longer periods of times than most viruses, those times are under specific laboratory conditions. RE: real life times typically are 25% up to 75% less than those in a lab. Another point that I have not seen currently published or on any news outlet is this. Say someone with the virus sneezes on your countertop and now there are droplets, visible and too small to be seen, containing the virus on this surface. (If you see/know this you will clean it) But let's assume you do not clean it for whatever reason. It is very difficult for you to touch the surface of the counter and transmit that virus to yourself. The more time that passes the less chance of transmission. Several factors are involved here, but the short story is the virus has a difficult time of surviving outside of its host, and even if it transmitted to you it is a significantly weaker virus that is trying to infect your body. Therefore your immune system stands a much greater chance of dealing with and destroying the virus before it has a chance to infect you.

You do not need to sanitize everything after each customer leaves the store. Several times a day should be sufficient depending on your foot traffic. More important than surfaces would be for you to wash your hands after interacting with each customer. At the very least a shot of hand sanitizer. Some sort of mask or bandana would be in order to prevent infection by the virus' most effective method of transmission, by inhaling moisture or mucus droplets just released by an infected customer. If you have a busy stretch with 2, 3 or 4 customers you can get by without washing your hands in between customers, just make sure that you do not touch your eyes, nose or mouth until the last customer has left and you have washed your hands.

Ric's point about those who correctly use PPE is well worth noting. EVEN among health professionals I have seen poor techniques. One must decide on a particular course of action and dedicate their undivided attention to that goal. It is very easy to forget for a second that you do not want to do something in particular, such as scratching your face, pushing you glasses back, pushing hair out of the way, etc.

There is so much info floating around right now. Months/years from now we will know what was necessary and worked and what was simply wrong. Until then we as individuals must do and take whatever steps that we deem necessary to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

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#27556 - 04/26/20 12:43 AM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
Mike Conrad Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 272
Loc: Sheffield, Ohio
So after I get done typing the above message I get on one of the internet "news" sites. They show an actor with a respirator mask on, who pushed the mask up on his face so he could smoke a cigarette. DUH. The worse spot on a mask for bacteria and viruses to collect is the area on top of the bridge of the nose to the cheek bones. This area is hard to seal off, even if you have/use those metal tabs some mask have to help conform the mask to your face. This is the one area where air is being inhaled and exhaled to most, so more germs. And then this actor goes and pushes that area of the mask right up to his eyes. Again, DUH!!!

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#27557 - 04/26/20 02:24 AM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 3035
Loc: WV
Thanks for the info. Sometimes we get busy here at the store, covered up at times. Busy is good, but folks come and go quickly. Today was a good day, business wise, I'll see the readings in the morning, but it was a very good day. I know that just from being behind the counter for 7 hours.

Moe and I were out social distancing today, apparently the turkeys are doing the same. We didn't hear squat. We had a good time anyway.


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#27558 - 04/26/20 10:31 AM Re: 2020 Virus lockdown. [Re: redsnow]
musher Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 2402
Loc: Qc.
Around here social distancing does not want you within 6 feet of another person unless you live in the same household.

My son had to go out of town for a check-up on his little guy. At the police road block he was stopped, questioned why he was leaving and license plate recorded. When he came back it was stop time again to check the ID's of him and his girlfriend, to be certain they lived in town, and the license plate checked again. This was followed by an explanation that they should go home and stay there because they might now be exposed.

At the hospital, only one parent was allowed in. Sonny stayed in the car. Girlfriend had a little excitement in the hospital. While waiting to see the doc, an alarm came on and everyone had to evacuate the hallway. Barricades were installed. A stretcher with a patient was wheeled through, and then the hallway was thoroughly cleaned. An infected patient was on the stretcher.

Grandson is fine and healthy so that is all that really matters.

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Moderator:  Hal, musher, redsnow, Ric 

 
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