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#2831 - 08/14/05 03:25 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Got to go with Beav says also....I have found on bigger traps #2 coils on up utilizing in/out lam.s with stronger springs is excellent for reducing paw damage...or as you already know go custom Heimbrock, Coyote Cuffs, Mb650, MJ600, Jake...

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#2832 - 08/14/05 04:13 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
go custom Heimbrock, Coyote Cuffs, Mb650, MJ600, Jake...
Nope , dont buy it.........all those trapes will break legs on greys w/ 10 swivels.

My predominate catch is GREY FOX.......a heimbock trap is gentle compared to a mb 650 and those are plain mean on a grey .

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#2833 - 08/16/05 12:34 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Buzz been contemplating your scenario...lots of grays with other valuable furbearers in the area...tricked out #1 1/2 MIGHT be the answer. we know that weight is a factor for those ROLLING/SPINNING gray fox and their light fragile bone make up creates problems. Might check out the new Montana #1 1/2 coil.

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#2834 - 08/16/05 05:42 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9913
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
You’ve got the right trap, Keith. That #1.65 Bridger is a 5” trap, and treats gray fox fairly well. I wouldn’t go to #1.5 if you’re going to do coyotes too. Are you saying you’re getting paw damage on coyotes consistently with that trap?

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2835 - 08/16/05 07:37 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Mountain Cur Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 41
Loc: Louisiana
Excellent discussion here that reinforces an earlier one that we had on here a while back, since hearing from you guys, I'm going to laminate all my traps inside and out and even try some of my plain jaws set up like this for live market, Sounds like with lamintations, Some of my plain jaw 1 1/2's should work for live market fox.

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#2836 - 08/16/05 10:27 PM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
tom dud Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 43
on my k-9 line the bigest trap i use is a 1.75.
although there are not very many greys i do cetch a few every year. reds and yotes are the norm. i dont four coil i do however laminate baseplate and use shokesprings on all my traps and i very rarely get foot damage. its always a posibility. also i have caught several yotes and held them with no foot damage with 1.5 coon traps. i dont recomend it however i think with four coils it would be a good trap!

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#2837 - 08/17/05 06:27 AM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Keith I don't buy it! You say all of the traps I listed will break legs on gray fox even with 10 swivels...nope. Maybe on certain especially fiesty, rollers but I've caught alot of grays in big traps with non offset jaws have you..that were fine. Now I'm not saying a big non-offset trap is my first choice on grays...a #1 1/2 offset with perfectly rounded jaws, centered chain and multiple swivels in a grass free, soft, bone dry ground with pillows on each side of the set would be...to prevent damage...lol
Let me throw this out for discussion...what has your been your experience in chain lengths for grays and damage? Personally, chain length might be the cause for alot of possible damage in these light boned critters.
FOR STRICTLY grays...a shorter well swiveled chain might reduce the potential to build up speed on these aggressive rollers.
But I think you are refering to paw damage due to trap jaw contacting paws. An strong offset jaw, with a wide surface area will not necessarily damage a paw. I believe the weight of the trap plus the length of the chain and swiveling will possibly have more effects on the little grays paw...my opinion.

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#2838 - 08/17/05 07:41 AM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3653
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
The majority of greys I have caught were before coyotes had become common in the areas I was trapping .My standard trap was a plain jane 11/2 coil with some extra swivels.Once Coyotes became more common and I increased trap size grey problems happened much more often.I attributed this to trap weight more than size because of the location and type of injuries.
When useing a compramise sized trap (read small) for Coyote,Reds and greys I saw an advantage to off-set jaws because of the size of a coyotes foot.It is a simple function of geometry.The seeming advantage is not so apparent in the field.Also poorly designed off-set jaws do nothing but help sell traps and cause problems.
I will take issue with one thing Mike said about his ideal trap.One of the worst traps for cutting that I ever used for fox had a rounded jaw face.My perfered jaw configureation for all species it a flat face with radiused corners.The width of the jaw face balanced with the spring strength of the particular trap

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#2839 - 08/17/05 08:52 AM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Buzzard.. Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 859
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
I believe the weight of the trap plus the length of the chain and swiveling will possibly have more effects on the little grays paw...my opinion.
I see it differently Mike, those trap listed usually do NOT hit a grey at the paw but higher up where there is no joint to help w/ movement. A high cought grey breaks easily. I did at one time think of some nice tricked out 1.5's and even laminating some 1.65's on the inside ......that looks like a nightmare to me for thrown coyote feet.

Quote:
Are you saying you’re getting paw damage on coyotes consistently with that trap?

Yes Hal, I am but I attribute it to the offsets, cant see it any other way . As for movement, there cant be much cause there aint no room left hardly in that little trap. I like the trap size very much and will give it anothergo this year but without the offsets

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#2840 - 08/17/05 09:46 AM Re: Paw damage on Grey fox........ Need imput
Mike Marchewka Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 152
Loc: Crystal Lake,Illinois
Ric, that is interesting. Was the damage in traps with chain hook ups centered off base? I remember using some "well used" Victors one year when we had reds and grays. These traps were stock...side chain hook up, end swiveled...the problem I saw was paw sliding due to both side anchored chain and weak springs. When I started using the stronger springed #1 1/2 Monty rj ...even with side anchored I had very little paw damage on grayfox. I did use just stock chain with end swivel. Caught alot of grays and reds in S.Ind over the years with those traps and saw basically same results. I always felt that if Monty traps had been designed with the Northwoods/Bridger trap centered base hookup it would have been EVEN better.

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