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#2957 - 08/28/06 07:13 AM Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1973
Loc: WV
Here in WV, I'm required to have a snare with "a breaking point of 350 pounds or less or a stop with a minimum loop diameter of at least 2 1/2 inches". I live in one of the states top 10 deer-kill counties, so nearly all of my snares could be exposed to deer activity. We have a 24 hour check law, and in past years, I've tried to avoid "entanglement" situations. I've never used BADs, and have relied on deer-stops alone. I've been thinking that BADs also have a place on my line? Just curious, I have questions that I'll ask as they come up, what do you guys use? smile

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#2958 - 08/28/06 12:49 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
AndyZWI Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 18
Loc: Central Wisconsin
Redsnow, We have pretty much the same regs except we have to have a 285lb BAD for wolves. I have had a few large yotes break the BAD, yes I am sure it was a yote not a wolf. I was using the "S" hook type BAD, but have done some research and found that there are crimp on BADs crimped by a machine which will break closer to the 285 mark and will be using these this year. Hope this helps!

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#2959 - 08/29/06 07:21 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1973
Loc: WV
I've searched back through the archives, and can't find a comparison between deer-stops/BADs. Found several discussions about BADs. One thing I'm curious about, would 90% of deer foot-snared cause a BAD to fail?

I'll give this observation from 2 or 3 years ago. Snow on the ground, I had 3 snares set in this one trail, one deer (it had big feet) walked down the trail and closed all 3 snares to my stop. As well as I could tell, the deer never broke-stride. Give or take, the snares were 30 feet apart. During the same snare-line, I watched a doe and fawn walk another trail with 4 snares, and all 4 were undisturbed. I guess they just pushed them aside with their legs? smile

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#2960 - 08/30/06 07:07 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
45/70 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 832
Loc: South Georgia, usA
Given that I had to make a choice between BADS and limit stops for deer (I don't), and given that the choice I made might effect numbers of other trappers, as well as myself, I would have to go with BADS. The reason? Limit stops for deer will deny trappers the use of snares for taking 'rats and mink.

Adios,
45/70,
RKBA !!!

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#2961 - 08/31/06 07:48 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1973
Loc: WV
The laws I quoted above are already on the books. Deer-stops and/or BADs are NOT required at water sets. But, I was mainly concerned with dry-land snares.

One thing that I don't like about the BADs... Lets think about that one big-footed, long-legged deer in my observation. Chances are it was a buck? I didn't see it, only tracks in the snow. If those 3 snares would have been equipped with BADs, all 3 would have been all kinked-up, and probably ruined? With the deer-stops, I just opened-up the snares and re=attached my support wires. What are the advantages of using BADs? I don't know. smile

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#2962 - 08/31/06 01:05 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
One thing, I don't like about deer stops are that they create another bump on the cable, and can cause extra damage when it come in contact with the fur. Also they may fail on really big deer. The loop may not be big enough to release the deer. (Although as you demonstrate, it works in most instances.)

With BADs, the average deer is going to be able to defeat a BAD. However, BADs can hold some little deer. This really shouldn't be a problem during fur season. And if you do happened to hold a little deer, it probably wont be real hard to turn loose. (As opposed to trying to turn loose a really big buck that couldn't get his foot out of a deer-stop snare.)

There are some limitations practical and legal. A 350 lb BAD is going to hold pretty near every coyote you might catch. But it will also hold a higher proportion of deer. A 270 pound BAD will release almost every deer, but a few coyotes may be able to get away as well. (There is always going to be crossover between holding coyotes and holding little deer. They are close to the same size, and there's no way around it.)

As for damaged snares from deer breaking out. You're not looking at the big picture. Your first line of defense, as you know, is not setting snares where deer are likely to go. So most of the time your snares won't be subject to deer any way. But, you throw away your deer stop every time you rebuild a snare. (The same is true for pop-off ferrules.) But if you use something like the s-hook bad, it is reusable again and again, until you catch a really big animal, and it bends the s-hook. So roughly speaking, you are only going to replace a s-hook when you snag a deer, which will probably be few and far between if you use good judgment. But you replace a deer stop every time you catch an animal.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2963 - 09/01/06 07:17 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1973
Loc: WV
A guy at a VA convention showed me how he placed his deer-stops, he was snaring fox for the live market. My loops are quite a bit bigger than the minimum of 2 1/2". That big deer above would have been "stuck" at 2.5". I've caught small grey fox, and had room for 2 or 3 fingers under the cable. I'd guess they are closer to 3". I put my stops on in the field, and have been using a tight-loop of 14ga wire. I'll smash the wire-loop till the cable is flattened, and then trim the ends as close as possible. The sniped-off ends are on the outside of the snare loop, away from the fur. Not sure if that's the best, I've never had a critter move one. The guy over in VA had been using wire stops for several years, and that demo was probably 10 years ago?

Hal, do you use a small washer on your BADs like you did in your testing? smile

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#2964 - 09/01/06 11:19 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9910
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I only used that washer because of the spring. Otherwise I don't use the washer.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2965 - 09/05/06 06:27 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
TexA Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 182
Loc: Estherville, Iowa
For years now, we have been required to use Deer Stops on our snares. At first, I thought they were about the worse thing that could happen to us. But after a few years of using them, I changed my opinion a little...

I have caught deer, around the neck, going under fences, with deer stops set @ 2.5". All of those deer were dead. I've caught at least 5 deer, three in one season, and had the same experience.

If I were required to have BADs on my snares, I think the deer would probably been able to break-open the loop and escape.

I do have both of some of my snares. Especially the ones that get set in a location where I might have a deer crawl under the fence and get caught. I've had one BAD opened-up and am surre it was a deer. It escaped unhurt, I think.....

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#2966 - 09/05/06 07:21 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
I'm not following you as to why your opinion of deer stops has changed.

You have demonstated very clearly why it is a very poor practice to set up a snare where a neck snared deer is a possibility.BAD,deer stop or both the outcome is not going to change.What ever opened up your BAD was almost certainly not a neck snared deer.

Back off from those fences and save the rest of us from haveing to deal with the results

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