Please observe our rules: No profanity. No flaming. No commercial messages. No personal messages please.

Trap Line Archives
 
Land Animals and Trapping Archive
 
Trap Line Home   Trap Line Forum   Trap Line Help   Trap Line Photo   Old Hollow Blog   Archives
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#2967 - 09/05/06 03:32 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Time to stop and get our bearings.

In any situation, the primary responsibility for keeping deer from becoming caught in snares lies in the hands of the trapper, and not in the snare itself. You just have to avoid putting snares where deer are prone to go.

One things that concerns me greatly about deer stops and break-away devices is that they may give a trapper a false sense of security. These devices do not make a snare deer proof. I worry about this a lot especially as regards the break away device and the instances cited above.

Here's the bottom line, break away devices are not effective in releasing neck snared deer. A device so light as to release a neck snared deer, is also going to release a coyote. Please, do not think of a break-away as an alternative to the deer stop in this regard. BADs and deer stops both are meant to release leg snared deer. And ordinarily with a deer walking at normal height, and a loop set low for furbearers, this is how it works.

But there's another common misconception -- deer don't crawl under fences. They sure do, especially small deer. Trappers have to read the sign carefully and avoid those crawl-unders used by deer like the plague.

Once again, break away devices are not designed to release neck snared deer -- nothing is.

Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

Top
#2968 - 09/05/06 07:37 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
willie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 27
Loc: MO
REDSNOW& TEXA You might try a relaxing type lock. to stop killing your deer or dogs. Hear in MO we hafet to use 2an one half inch deer stop 285 LBS bad and a relaxing type lock. Its called a cabel restrant.MO departemt of conservation has done extensive recarch on this. Keep your 5 foot cable restraint 12 inches from the fence or any thing one half inch in diameter to stop entanglement. With this method you may sell your creiders alive.

Top
#2969 - 09/05/06 09:36 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1897
Loc: WV
Knock, Knock. Knock on wood, here in WV we are required to use "relaxing" locks. Relaxing locks would be (cam-locks, washer-locks, Mini-locs, etc. most locks are "relaxing".) As of today, I've never killed a deer or dog in a snare. Hope I never do! The deer I mentioned above probably didn't even know that he pulled my snares from the supports. Who knows?, he didn't break-stride. As far as killing deer, the "relaxing" lock wouldn't make a speck of difference on a neck snared deer. We're getting off-topic a bit, but honestly, with a 280 pound Sullivan BAD you could hoist every single deer in this county off the ground. With that said, I'm very careful about where I set snares/cable-restraints. Us folks here in WV worked a long time getting snares legalized for land animals, and we darn sure want to loose the privilege. smile

Top
#2970 - 09/06/06 09:00 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
HOLY SMOKE!!!!! CASE IN POINT!!!!

"You might try a relaxing type lock. to stop killing your deer or dogs."

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! frown

(Willie, don't take this too hard.) I do not want to drag this thread off track, but here is a classic example of a trapper getting a false sense of security from some "highly regulated" snaring program, and the "terminology".

Relaxing locks will not keep you from killing animals in a snare. Avoiding entanglement, as suggested, is of primary importance where dogs are concerned. Relaxing locks will not keep you from killing neck snared deer -- period. Do not set snares where deer are likely to go. That is the best insurance.

frown frown frown frown -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

Top
#2971 - 09/17/06 07:32 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
TexA Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 182
Loc: Estherville, Iowa
Good Discussion... Good Points too.....

As far as not setting snares where Deer go, there is no place like that! They go anywhere, under or over fences.

All of the ones I"ve caught have been in crawl through situations, under a fence. Deer do go under fences, even big bucks have been documented crawling under barbed-wire fences, so it's not just does and yearlings that go under fences.

In that particular area, I also took 24 Red Fox out of that area in that one season. Most of them were taken in crawl under fence set locations. They do travel the same trails as deer (as well as other critters).....

As for the Deer Stops themselves. I've used crimped-on #17 wire, over the 3/32" cable for years. I have never had one slip and I have never had any fur damage caused by one either.

More than likely, the "fuzzies" sticking out of the end of the ferrel or smashed nuts cause more damage than the deer stop ever does. I grind off all the fuzzies anywhere they happen to be on my home made snares.

99% of the time, I use a large 5/8th-inch washer for my locks. They are bent in a "L" shape. On the short-side, I drill an oversized 3/32" hole. On the long side, I drill a hole that will just pass the cable I'm using for the snare. The bent washers slide easily and quickly to close the loop.

When the loop closes, the Deer Stop slides up and under the bend in the washer, there by making it impossible for the deer stop to do any damage to the snared critters neck area.

I've tried most other kinds of locks, but return to the bent washers every time..... Some of mine have been used for well over 25 years and continue to work just fine. They are called "releasing" locks, but once a critter hits the end of the cable a time or two, the cable gets kinked and the lock will not move. I don't think there is ANY lock that can truely be a Relaxing Lock! (Maybe the Penny Washer type, but that's about it.)

If I had my choice, I think I'd use the BADs before the Deer Stop method.

I do like the deer stops with a loop set to give me a loop about 4-inches in diameter when I am setting trail sets for Coon though. I think it does help reduce the snare damage in the flank area of Coon when they are body caught. It's called selective snaring I guess.....

Don't get your snares mixed together if you're going for both Coon and Fox/Coyotes. The fox can slide a 4" loop over it's head and maybe even a coyote could, so be careful.

45/70,
I wish we could use snares for Mink and Muskrat too, but Deer Stops just won't let us do it.

I disagree about the statement that the outcome of a deer stop or BAD caught deer would be the same = a dead deer. I know I've neck caught deer in snares with 285 lb BADs on them, plus a deer stop, and had the BAD open up, just like it was designed to do.

I am very selective where I set any snare, so I don't go along with all that either. There is no place that you can set one and guarantee anyone that you will/cannot catch a deer in one!

willie:
I've NEVER killed a dog in on of my snares either! I've caught a few in both snares and foot holds but never killed one or even damaged one.

Top
#2972 - 09/18/06 08:54 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1897
Loc: WV
I don't understand the purpose of having a deer-stop AND a BAD on the same snare. I can see using a BAD-snare would make a "lethal" set, more lethal (still boils down to entanglement).

About the only place that I can think of where deer will NOT go, is on logs. Some of the logs i've snared are "lethal" sets, some are not. I've rigged them both ways, depends on the situation.

As mentioned above, I've never used BADS, I have had my hands on a bunch of deer though. Seems to me that a BAD-snare on the top 2/3's of a deer's neck would crush it's wind-pipe, and the animal would have what?, a minute or two to get free.??? The only way that I can imagine a neck-snared deer would open a BAD is to be snared at the base of the neck. Wouldn't think anyone makes loops that big. smile

Top
#2973 - 09/18/06 05:50 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Ric Offline


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3642
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
Let's scroll up a few posts to one by Hal.Misconceptions[BAD's will allow neck snared dear to escape].NO they will not.Deer stops and BAD's perform the same function,to allow foot snared deer to free themselves.If in fact someone touts either as a means for a neck snared deer to release itself trusting that information is going to lead to problems.

Top
#2974 - 09/18/06 07:55 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9874
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
For the sake of clarity…

There is evidence that some neck snared deer may be able to defeat a BAD. But a BAD is neither consistent or reliable in achieving this effect.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

Top
#2975 - 09/18/06 09:04 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 1897
Loc: WV
I've had this discussion/argument with one of my buddies, time and again. I'm not sold on BAD's. I understand everything above, (except for having a BAD and Deer-stop, on the same snare). My buddy has used BAD's (the S-hook type), and I ask him the advantages, EVERY time he reminds me of the red fox he caught by it's back feet! We're good friends, I'm glad that he caught it. But, as I've told him time, after time, he should have missed it. That fox, walked through his snare, caught an ankle on the wire, and the rest is history. :rolleyes: I almost wish now, that he'd missed it. laugh Like was mentioned above about the misconceptions, I know that he's made a few bad decisions by asking the BAD to do something it is not designed to do. ??? smile

Top
#2976 - 09/19/06 08:12 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I can pretty much say with a great degree of certainty, that if you worked in the Elk and or cattle most would be firm believers in BADs...they work. I wonder how big of a minimum loop one needs for a good bull to be able to shake off over its hoof.

I've heard tell that there are some BADS that when used with certain snare set ups will release some neck snared deer...maybe, maybe not. It is hard to reconcile the claim with the math. I will say this, you won't use relaxing type set ups with these less than 100 lb or so BADS and hold a high percentage of you coyotes.

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Archive 

 
Sullivan's Line - Trapping Books, Videos, and Other Products for the Trapper.
 
Design and Production by Sullivan Promotions
Copyright 2000-2017  Sullivan's Scents and Supplies - All rights reserved.