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#2957 - 08/28/06 07:13 AM Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Here in WV, I'm required to have a snare with "a breaking point of 350 pounds or less or a stop with a minimum loop diameter of at least 2 1/2 inches". I live in one of the states top 10 deer-kill counties, so nearly all of my snares could be exposed to deer activity. We have a 24 hour check law, and in past years, I've tried to avoid "entanglement" situations. I've never used BADs, and have relied on deer-stops alone. I've been thinking that BADs also have a place on my line? Just curious, I have questions that I'll ask as they come up, what do you guys use? smile

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#2958 - 08/28/06 12:49 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
AndyZWI Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 18
Loc: Central Wisconsin
Redsnow, We have pretty much the same regs except we have to have a 285lb BAD for wolves. I have had a few large yotes break the BAD, yes I am sure it was a yote not a wolf. I was using the "S" hook type BAD, but have done some research and found that there are crimp on BADs crimped by a machine which will break closer to the 285 mark and will be using these this year. Hope this helps!

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#2959 - 08/29/06 07:21 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
I've searched back through the archives, and can't find a comparison between deer-stops/BADs. Found several discussions about BADs. One thing I'm curious about, would 90% of deer foot-snared cause a BAD to fail?

I'll give this observation from 2 or 3 years ago. Snow on the ground, I had 3 snares set in this one trail, one deer (it had big feet) walked down the trail and closed all 3 snares to my stop. As well as I could tell, the deer never broke-stride. Give or take, the snares were 30 feet apart. During the same snare-line, I watched a doe and fawn walk another trail with 4 snares, and all 4 were undisturbed. I guess they just pushed them aside with their legs? smile

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#2960 - 08/30/06 07:07 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
45/70 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 832
Loc: South Georgia, usA
Given that I had to make a choice between BADS and limit stops for deer (I don't), and given that the choice I made might effect numbers of other trappers, as well as myself, I would have to go with BADS. The reason? Limit stops for deer will deny trappers the use of snares for taking 'rats and mink.

Adios,
45/70,
RKBA !!!

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#2961 - 08/31/06 07:48 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
The laws I quoted above are already on the books. Deer-stops and/or BADs are NOT required at water sets. But, I was mainly concerned with dry-land snares.

One thing that I don't like about the BADs... Lets think about that one big-footed, long-legged deer in my observation. Chances are it was a buck? I didn't see it, only tracks in the snow. If those 3 snares would have been equipped with BADs, all 3 would have been all kinked-up, and probably ruined? With the deer-stops, I just opened-up the snares and re=attached my support wires. What are the advantages of using BADs? I don't know. smile

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#2962 - 08/31/06 01:05 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
One thing, I don't like about deer stops are that they create another bump on the cable, and can cause extra damage when it come in contact with the fur. Also they may fail on really big deer. The loop may not be big enough to release the deer. (Although as you demonstrate, it works in most instances.)

With BADs, the average deer is going to be able to defeat a BAD. However, BADs can hold some little deer. This really shouldn't be a problem during fur season. And if you do happened to hold a little deer, it probably wont be real hard to turn loose. (As opposed to trying to turn loose a really big buck that couldn't get his foot out of a deer-stop snare.)

There are some limitations practical and legal. A 350 lb BAD is going to hold pretty near every coyote you might catch. But it will also hold a higher proportion of deer. A 270 pound BAD will release almost every deer, but a few coyotes may be able to get away as well. (There is always going to be crossover between holding coyotes and holding little deer. They are close to the same size, and there's no way around it.)

As for damaged snares from deer breaking out. You're not looking at the big picture. Your first line of defense, as you know, is not setting snares where deer are likely to go. So most of the time your snares won't be subject to deer any way. But, you throw away your deer stop every time you rebuild a snare. (The same is true for pop-off ferrules.) But if you use something like the s-hook bad, it is reusable again and again, until you catch a really big animal, and it bends the s-hook. So roughly speaking, you are only going to replace a s-hook when you snag a deer, which will probably be few and far between if you use good judgment. But you replace a deer stop every time you catch an animal.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2963 - 09/01/06 07:17 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
A guy at a VA convention showed me how he placed his deer-stops, he was snaring fox for the live market. My loops are quite a bit bigger than the minimum of 2 1/2". That big deer above would have been "stuck" at 2.5". I've caught small grey fox, and had room for 2 or 3 fingers under the cable. I'd guess they are closer to 3". I put my stops on in the field, and have been using a tight-loop of 14ga wire. I'll smash the wire-loop till the cable is flattened, and then trim the ends as close as possible. The sniped-off ends are on the outside of the snare loop, away from the fur. Not sure if that's the best, I've never had a critter move one. The guy over in VA had been using wire stops for several years, and that demo was probably 10 years ago?

Hal, do you use a small washer on your BADs like you did in your testing? smile

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#2964 - 09/01/06 11:19 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
I only used that washer because of the spring. Otherwise I don't use the washer.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2965 - 09/05/06 06:27 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
TexA Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 182
Loc: Estherville, Iowa
For years now, we have been required to use Deer Stops on our snares. At first, I thought they were about the worse thing that could happen to us. But after a few years of using them, I changed my opinion a little...

I have caught deer, around the neck, going under fences, with deer stops set @ 2.5". All of those deer were dead. I've caught at least 5 deer, three in one season, and had the same experience.

If I were required to have BADs on my snares, I think the deer would probably been able to break-open the loop and escape.

I do have both of some of my snares. Especially the ones that get set in a location where I might have a deer crawl under the fence and get caught. I've had one BAD opened-up and am surre it was a deer. It escaped unhurt, I think.....

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#2966 - 09/05/06 07:21 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Ric Online   content


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3663
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
I'm not following you as to why your opinion of deer stops has changed.

You have demonstated very clearly why it is a very poor practice to set up a snare where a neck snared deer is a possibility.BAD,deer stop or both the outcome is not going to change.What ever opened up your BAD was almost certainly not a neck snared deer.

Back off from those fences and save the rest of us from haveing to deal with the results

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#2967 - 09/05/06 03:32 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Time to stop and get our bearings.

In any situation, the primary responsibility for keeping deer from becoming caught in snares lies in the hands of the trapper, and not in the snare itself. You just have to avoid putting snares where deer are prone to go.

One things that concerns me greatly about deer stops and break-away devices is that they may give a trapper a false sense of security. These devices do not make a snare deer proof. I worry about this a lot especially as regards the break away device and the instances cited above.

Here's the bottom line, break away devices are not effective in releasing neck snared deer. A device so light as to release a neck snared deer, is also going to release a coyote. Please, do not think of a break-away as an alternative to the deer stop in this regard. BADs and deer stops both are meant to release leg snared deer. And ordinarily with a deer walking at normal height, and a loop set low for furbearers, this is how it works.

But there's another common misconception -- deer don't crawl under fences. They sure do, especially small deer. Trappers have to read the sign carefully and avoid those crawl-unders used by deer like the plague.

Once again, break away devices are not designed to release neck snared deer -- nothing is.

Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2968 - 09/05/06 07:37 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
willie Offline
Member

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 27
Loc: MO
REDSNOW& TEXA You might try a relaxing type lock. to stop killing your deer or dogs. Hear in MO we hafet to use 2an one half inch deer stop 285 LBS bad and a relaxing type lock. Its called a cabel restrant.MO departemt of conservation has done extensive recarch on this. Keep your 5 foot cable restraint 12 inches from the fence or any thing one half inch in diameter to stop entanglement. With this method you may sell your creiders alive.

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#2969 - 09/05/06 09:36 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
Knock, Knock. Knock on wood, here in WV we are required to use "relaxing" locks. Relaxing locks would be (cam-locks, washer-locks, Mini-locs, etc. most locks are "relaxing".) As of today, I've never killed a deer or dog in a snare. Hope I never do! The deer I mentioned above probably didn't even know that he pulled my snares from the supports. Who knows?, he didn't break-stride. As far as killing deer, the "relaxing" lock wouldn't make a speck of difference on a neck snared deer. We're getting off-topic a bit, but honestly, with a 280 pound Sullivan BAD you could hoist every single deer in this county off the ground. With that said, I'm very careful about where I set snares/cable-restraints. Us folks here in WV worked a long time getting snares legalized for land animals, and we darn sure want to loose the privilege. smile

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#2970 - 09/06/06 09:00 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
HOLY SMOKE!!!!! CASE IN POINT!!!!

"You might try a relaxing type lock. to stop killing your deer or dogs."

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! frown

(Willie, don't take this too hard.) I do not want to drag this thread off track, but here is a classic example of a trapper getting a false sense of security from some "highly regulated" snaring program, and the "terminology".

Relaxing locks will not keep you from killing animals in a snare. Avoiding entanglement, as suggested, is of primary importance where dogs are concerned. Relaxing locks will not keep you from killing neck snared deer -- period. Do not set snares where deer are likely to go. That is the best insurance.

frown frown frown frown -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2971 - 09/17/06 07:32 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
TexA Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 182
Loc: Estherville, Iowa
Good Discussion... Good Points too.....

As far as not setting snares where Deer go, there is no place like that! They go anywhere, under or over fences.

All of the ones I"ve caught have been in crawl through situations, under a fence. Deer do go under fences, even big bucks have been documented crawling under barbed-wire fences, so it's not just does and yearlings that go under fences.

In that particular area, I also took 24 Red Fox out of that area in that one season. Most of them were taken in crawl under fence set locations. They do travel the same trails as deer (as well as other critters).....

As for the Deer Stops themselves. I've used crimped-on #17 wire, over the 3/32" cable for years. I have never had one slip and I have never had any fur damage caused by one either.

More than likely, the "fuzzies" sticking out of the end of the ferrel or smashed nuts cause more damage than the deer stop ever does. I grind off all the fuzzies anywhere they happen to be on my home made snares.

99% of the time, I use a large 5/8th-inch washer for my locks. They are bent in a "L" shape. On the short-side, I drill an oversized 3/32" hole. On the long side, I drill a hole that will just pass the cable I'm using for the snare. The bent washers slide easily and quickly to close the loop.

When the loop closes, the Deer Stop slides up and under the bend in the washer, there by making it impossible for the deer stop to do any damage to the snared critters neck area.

I've tried most other kinds of locks, but return to the bent washers every time..... Some of mine have been used for well over 25 years and continue to work just fine. They are called "releasing" locks, but once a critter hits the end of the cable a time or two, the cable gets kinked and the lock will not move. I don't think there is ANY lock that can truely be a Relaxing Lock! (Maybe the Penny Washer type, but that's about it.)

If I had my choice, I think I'd use the BADs before the Deer Stop method.

I do like the deer stops with a loop set to give me a loop about 4-inches in diameter when I am setting trail sets for Coon though. I think it does help reduce the snare damage in the flank area of Coon when they are body caught. It's called selective snaring I guess.....

Don't get your snares mixed together if you're going for both Coon and Fox/Coyotes. The fox can slide a 4" loop over it's head and maybe even a coyote could, so be careful.

45/70,
I wish we could use snares for Mink and Muskrat too, but Deer Stops just won't let us do it.

I disagree about the statement that the outcome of a deer stop or BAD caught deer would be the same = a dead deer. I know I've neck caught deer in snares with 285 lb BADs on them, plus a deer stop, and had the BAD open up, just like it was designed to do.

I am very selective where I set any snare, so I don't go along with all that either. There is no place that you can set one and guarantee anyone that you will/cannot catch a deer in one!

willie:
I've NEVER killed a dog in on of my snares either! I've caught a few in both snares and foot holds but never killed one or even damaged one.

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#2972 - 09/18/06 08:54 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
I don't understand the purpose of having a deer-stop AND a BAD on the same snare. I can see using a BAD-snare would make a "lethal" set, more lethal (still boils down to entanglement).

About the only place that I can think of where deer will NOT go, is on logs. Some of the logs i've snared are "lethal" sets, some are not. I've rigged them both ways, depends on the situation.

As mentioned above, I've never used BADS, I have had my hands on a bunch of deer though. Seems to me that a BAD-snare on the top 2/3's of a deer's neck would crush it's wind-pipe, and the animal would have what?, a minute or two to get free.??? The only way that I can imagine a neck-snared deer would open a BAD is to be snared at the base of the neck. Wouldn't think anyone makes loops that big. smile

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#2973 - 09/18/06 05:50 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Ric Online   content


Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3663
Loc: Wellington,OH=USA
Let's scroll up a few posts to one by Hal.Misconceptions[BAD's will allow neck snared dear to escape].NO they will not.Deer stops and BAD's perform the same function,to allow foot snared deer to free themselves.If in fact someone touts either as a means for a neck snared deer to release itself trusting that information is going to lead to problems.

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#2974 - 09/18/06 07:55 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
For the sake of clarity…

There is evidence that some neck snared deer may be able to defeat a BAD. But a BAD is neither consistent or reliable in achieving this effect.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2975 - 09/18/06 09:04 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
I've had this discussion/argument with one of my buddies, time and again. I'm not sold on BAD's. I understand everything above, (except for having a BAD and Deer-stop, on the same snare). My buddy has used BAD's (the S-hook type), and I ask him the advantages, EVERY time he reminds me of the red fox he caught by it's back feet! We're good friends, I'm glad that he caught it. But, as I've told him time, after time, he should have missed it. That fox, walked through his snare, caught an ankle on the wire, and the rest is history. :rolleyes: I almost wish now, that he'd missed it. laugh Like was mentioned above about the misconceptions, I know that he's made a few bad decisions by asking the BAD to do something it is not designed to do. ??? smile

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#2976 - 09/19/06 08:12 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I can pretty much say with a great degree of certainty, that if you worked in the Elk and or cattle most would be firm believers in BADs...they work. I wonder how big of a minimum loop one needs for a good bull to be able to shake off over its hoof.

I've heard tell that there are some BADS that when used with certain snare set ups will release some neck snared deer...maybe, maybe not. It is hard to reconcile the claim with the math. I will say this, you won't use relaxing type set ups with these less than 100 lb or so BADS and hold a high percentage of you coyotes.

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#2977 - 09/19/06 10:21 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
CO Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 4
Loc: State Hopper
I'm new to snaring this year. I'll be around alot of cattle, so I'm using BAD's for sure. It's just finding the right one that's the question. Bought some J hooks. Don't like the looks of them one bit. So I'm going to try using 1 strand of a 7x7. Anybody use this set up?

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#2978 - 09/19/06 10:27 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
To the best of my knowledge, one strand of 7X7 has never been tested as a break away device.

What's wrong with your j-hooks and what kind do you have?

quest -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2979 - 09/19/06 10:34 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
CO Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 4
Loc: State Hopper
I bought some J hooks from The Snare Shop. They won't close down tight enough. Seem to relax back open after awhile. I don't trust the cable not to come off.
I heard Steve Wood from Nevada tested the one strand at 300 with the 5/64 and 215 with the 1/16.
I'm going to give it the field test this year.

(Edit: Please edit your profile and indicate what state you are from. Thanks. -- Hal)

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#2980 - 09/19/06 11:29 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
How will you rig this? And what kind of lock are you going to use?

quest -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2981 - 09/19/06 11:50 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
Some time ago, Slim described a similar proceedure for making BADs from cable.

If you want to use "s" hook BADs I highly recomend that you try those produced and sold by the owner of this site. They are preformed, are easily installed and closed to their original QC shape. I've tried anumber of types and will now only use and recomend the Sullivan BADs when speaking of "s" BADs.

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#2982 - 09/19/06 12:08 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
Thanks Tom.

Also note that you can take my s-hood BAD, clamp half of it in a vice, twist it 90° and make a j-hook out of it.

smile -- Hal
_________________________
Endeavor to persevere.

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#2983 - 09/19/06 01:56 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
CO Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 4
Loc: State Hopper
I'm using cam-locks. Attaching the BAD
with a double ferrule.
The s hook sounds good. That's what I'm looking for is testimonials.
I was using the j hook to attach a dispatch spring. Can't do that with the one strand set-up.

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#2984 - 09/19/06 06:09 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I use many snares with cams-"S" BADs-and springs...they work well. There is one thing, I see no reason to make a "7" bend in the cable when using a spring and BAD; just run the cable through one eye of the "s" add the spring, small washer and stop.

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#2985 - 09/19/06 07:06 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
CO Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 4
Loc: State Hopper
That's good to know. I had a heck of time getting the 7 in there with the cam-j-spring.
I'm going to get some of those s hooks.
Would the springs work with the Gregerson breakaway locks? (Lock-spring-washer-stop)

(Edit: I asked you to update your profile to indicate what state you are from. The last time I checked "Hopper" was not a state. Goodbye. -- Hal)

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#2986 - 09/19/06 08:25 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I've not used Keith's locks and cannot give you an answer. But Why use a disposable lock when you have cams and BAD's?

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#2987 - 09/20/06 07:46 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
A "moose-stop", lol. I realize you guys around BIG big-game like elk and moose need some type of BAD. A while back I heard a rumor about someone trying a smaller pin, in Cam-locs, something like a "shear-pin", that would "break" at say 300#, I can see where that would work, if they were machined to close tolerances. That was a few years ago, so, I guess that didn't pan-out.

Think about how much snare locks have changed, improved over the last 20 years. Tom Krause wrote a couple lines in his snaring book, or one of his articles (don't remember) about possibly using some type of "plastic/nylon" lock. At first I brushed the idea off, but it needs another look. Tom is a far better snaresman than me. Think about the "stuff" these "wire-ties/zip-ties" are made of, pound for pound it's stronger than steel. Not sure if it's nylon or what, but if a person had a "mold" or "jig", you could change the breaking strength, by molding your lock .001" thicker or thinner, or molding the "end-hole" closer or farther away from the edge. If you look at the new locks, that the Snare Shop, and Newt are selling, these locks could be molded from plastic/nylon. I have been playing with one of Newt's type, haven't had a chance to see the Snare Shop's "micro-loc" yet. I don't know if anyone is working on a "nylon-break-away-lock", it needs a closer look. Like anything, at first it'll have "bugs", that need to get ironed-out, it's worth thinking about. smile

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#2988 - 09/20/06 08:41 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Fuzzyface Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 1
Loc: WA/ID
The camlocks with sheer pins are still available but expensive.

I will second Wackyquackers comments on Hal's bads. They are on almost all my snares now. They make a nice J-hook too.

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#2989 - 09/26/06 10:22 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
foxboy43 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 24
Loc: coldspring mn
i thought that camlocks locked!!!! we just got snaring back in the southern part of the state last year i only caught two but both of them didnt relax at all. i picked them because i didnt want racoons giving me issues with the opposeable thumbs. saw a lock called thompson release lock that looks like it may deliver. personaly i like the heavy locks and loaded cable, bump the bottom of the cable and it is closed. as far as the deer and dog issue i plan on passing on sets that leave any dought. top of snare has to be no higher than 16" so fox coon skunk and mink will be my targets and use foothold for coyotes

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#2990 - 09/27/06 11:11 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Hal Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 9945
Loc: Blue Creek, Ohio, USA
"i thought that camlocks locked!!!!"

Are there locks that don't lock? If a lock doesn’t lock, is it still a lock?

quest -- Hal
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#2991 - 09/28/06 07:47 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
redsnow Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 2050
Loc: WV
smile (foxboy, next time you get a chance, look at a coons foot a little closer. possums have a "thumb"(one on each back foot), not coons).

One thing that I don't like about the BADS, it just seems like another piece of "junk" that animals may see. For you guys that have used BADs, is that all in my head, or does it make sense? In the past, I've tried to use the smallest locks on the market, I always figured that if I could see it, critters could too. smile

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#2992 - 09/28/06 09:33 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
WACKYQUACKER Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 683
Loc: CORRALES, NM
I snare coyotes annually. I use either camlocks with tensioning springs (compression or stingers) or Ambergs. On my cams I use "s" hook BADs. I'm not certain that you can hang more junk in the air than this when snaring...I seem to manage a bunch of coyotes.

My experience tells me that the lock etc hanging well above the eye level of at least coyotes, cats and gray fox is of little importance. The size of the cable can make a bunch of difference, particularly when you are comparing 3/32 and 5/64. I see less of a difference between 5/64 and 1/16. However, if I am concerned I hang 1/16.

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#2993 - 10/01/06 10:43 AM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
nvbobcat Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Nevada
CO - the method mentioned by wackyquacker -- about Slim mentioning a similiar method is the same method you are talking about. I developed the BAD using snare cable, tested it and sent it to Slim to test. He published it in his book so it could be shared with other snaremen. Making BADs with used cable is essentially free and very effective. I have never held a deer, horse or cow when using these breakaways. At the same time I have never had a bobcat break one. For 10' snares I use one of the larger strands from a piece of 7x7 5/64th cable. A trapper named Steve Craig has used it extensively and really likes it. He made some BADs to operate at a lighter poundage by removing one of the smaller strands from this piece of 5/64th cable. It held the smaller coyotes but the larger ones were able to break free. So the rating of the cable is very close to perfect for holding coyotes when using one of the larger strands of the 7x7 5/64th cable.

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#2994 - 10/01/06 02:09 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons
Dusty Offline
Member+

Registered: 12/15/00
Posts: 420
Loc: North Pole, Alaska, USA
285lb BAD for wolves

Don't catch many wolves, do you? I let one go from my 760lb BADs every now and then.

One things that concerns me greatly about deer stops and break-away devices is that they may give a trapper a false sense of security.

Amen. A 250lb BAD will hold an adult cow (figure 1500lbs) moose - if she's nose-caught. I've caught 3 moose in hanging several hundred snares for a decade or so. 2 of them were my first year. Use yer head!

in Cam-locs, something like a "shear-pin"

They're hard to set up and inconsistent. The first characteristic is forgiveable.

Are there locks that don't lock? If a lock doesn’t lock, is it still a lock?

Those are mainly used on "cable restraints," which are apparently PETA-approved non-snares (that happen to look and work just like snares). mad

I use split Thompson locks for wolf breakaways. It's a great system in that it doesn't hang any more crap on your snare or change anything about the functionality, and it does that with the lock I'd use anyway. It's also amazingly consistent - several hundred have been pulled on F&G's digital snare tester, and they all break about the same. Wolves confirm this! Has this been tested for smaller critters? If not, someone could get "rich" hacksawing snare locks up!

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#25437 - 10/25/17 01:25 PM Re: Fox, Yote, Cat Snares: Deer-Stop vs Break-Away-Device??? Pros/Cons [Re: redsnow]
Archive Offline


Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 1116
Dated for search.

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