I am considering using metal screening to increase the pan size on my jakes, sterlings. I can only find galvanized screen in town. I use pan covers with buckwheat hulls on my fox stuff with success. My reason for wanting to increase the pan size is in the likely event a fox visits a jake before a wolf does. Now for the questions.

1- am I wasting my time? The pans seem fine and plenty big. I also think that J.C. knows what a fox foot looks like and considered it in his trap design even though they aren't made as fox traps.

2- since I use buckwheat hulls won't the metal screening tip/lift on the opposite side if a critter steps off centre?

3- should I change bedding technique to avoid #2.?

4- since galvanized is all I can get will boiling in baking soda, same as a snare, be enough to deodorize?

5- I find the screening very flexible. No way is it as stiff as a pan. Should I double/triple it up?

Thanks.

With the possible exception of mink, I don't believe it is a good idea to increase the pan ("kill" if you will) area of a trap. The trap and pan should be designed to function in tandem. Increasing the pan area on a trap can cause the trap to fire without the animals foot being well centered in the trap. This results in catches lower on the foot. In other words -- toe catches. This is not desirable.

I do get the gist of your thinking regarding fox verses wolf. But what you might gain on one end (more fox) you might lose on the other end (poor holds on wolves). I believe the general consensus is that the more specifically traps and sets are targeted to a specific species, the more successful they will be. I can't readily envision combination fox and wolf sets.

Look at it from this angle. We often discuss here about using increased pan tension on a canine trap to get the animal committed to the trap pan, and centered in the trap before it fires. It seems to me increasing the area of the pan is a step in the opposite direction. If you really want the trap to fire when an animal just gets near the pan, decrease the pan tension. Please don't think I'm advocating this. I'm just trying to point out that this would be similar to increasing the pan area.

-- Hal

Thanks, Hal. What you wrote makes perfect sense to me. I bought the sterlings/jakes as a combo trap because I think a "real" wolf trap,(which I have only seen in photos) as in a mb750 or wolf CDR would not be fox/lynx friendly. A centered foot will mean a higher catch on these two animals. With the offset/laminated/padded jaws that should help keep my trapping clean. I don't mean to imply that the sterlings/jakes aren't "real" but only that they are designed for coyotes.

Now if I had only posted last night I could have saved 2 bucks.

What Hal said. Especially with wolves, if I can't hang onto them I don't want them in my trap at all. Have you seen a Manning? There is a lil bitty half-dollar sized pan setting in the middle of a half-acre or so (ok, however much of an acre a 9-inch round jaw makes) of jawspread. If you do your job, wolves just don't get pinched and not end up on a stretcher. I set most of my wolf foot traps in my snogo trail. Wolves can be moving pretty good when they hit them, and I want the whole foot as centered as I can get it in the trap. If they miss a bit, they can walk all over the jaws and never know they were almost on a stretcher. If the trap fires on them and they get out, they become paranoid of roundish depressions in the trail, and my life is a bit more interesting. I like boring. I don't particularly like the Paws-I-Trip pan on the CDRs for just this reason--it's too big.

As far as fox, I try very hard not to catch them in my wolf traps. I run something on the order or 10 pounds (as much as I can get with the Paws-I-Trip with a spacer between the pan ears and the bolt cranked down tight) of pan tension on my traps, assuming my pan setup will let me. I have had several fox, a couple cats, and one coyote step on a pan and not fire the trap. I do back off that in the spring when I have to deal with crusting snow.

I have tried to figure out how to catch both in the same trap, and have pretty much decided is in improbable if not impossible. A #48 Newhouse is the closest I have found to a fox/wolf trap, and it certainly isn't a fox trap and isn't much of a wolf trap. On the off chance that you do get this figured out, please let us know--I would buy a couple dozen of those cute little pseudo-wolf traps if they catch wolves and don't bust fox up!

No, I've never seen a Manning. The only supposed wolf trap I had seen, prior to discovering this website and acting on the information people shared, was #4 victor L.S. and jumps. The things I purchased were a few jakes, sterlings, and #3 fully modified bridgers. Therefore I still haven't seen a real wolf trap. I did get a couple of CDR's so the jaw spread coupled with the photos gives me a good understanding of what a wolf CDR is like.
I've had enough traps dismantled by wolves to appreciate their power. Luckily, I never had a chain break or swivel open so bracelets never happened. Given the above I have lots of faith in the jakes. The few people I have shown them to go "WOW." The one other canine maniac I know displayed a facial expression normally seen just on honeymoons when he handled the jake.
Trappers in this province still recommend the #4 victor. A guy at our rendez-vous tried to sell me one that was of superiour quality. It had an inner spring insert on one side. It was not even centre-swiveled!
If this lack of knowledge about wolf restraining traps seems strange consider the following. There are about 15,000 people that have passed their trapping course. I don't think that 10,000 trap. Most of those that do are living near/between Quebec City and Montreal where wolves are not a target. If I remember correctly, a survey that the government did prior to giving in to the threats of the Europeans boycotting our fur showed that only 2% of our trappers used footholds for canine trapping. The snare was/is number one by far. What also fosters the #4 myth is that someone always knows someone who was successful with it. I know one fellow who caught 5 in his second year of trapping by burying half a beaver in a huge hole in a sandpit, placing an untreated, rusty, non-modified #4 in front and wiring it to a long log. Each time a wolf got caught it headed down the road, never tangling, and he would catch up to it in the morning! He hasn't told me of catching any others since but I bet he's still doing the same thing and buddies of his are also. People never tell you about the ones they lose, miss, or can't get to work a set.
I will post if I connect with a sterling or jake, be it for fox, lynx, or wolf. I say "if" because I'll still be using my regular equipment for lynx and fox. Wolf numbers aren't high on my line (best year is 5) and I'll still be setting snares. Right now I have 2 that I'm scouting and 1 of those probably is the one I lost last year.

Well I don't trap wolves.But I do use screen pan covers.
HOw many times have you checked your trap and found a fox track on the dirt pattern and the fox just missed the pan by a 1/4" more then most of us care to admit.
With a full screen pan cover you don't have this problem.I don't have any problems with toe caught fox or coyotes. Buy useing this method I have increased my catch per visit. It works for me.

The Beav

Hi Beav, What do you use as pan covers? On my fox/lynx sets I use those nylon screen things trapping supply stores sell. I like them. However, they are so flexible that I think they are more effective at keeping under the pan free of debris as opposed to adding surface area to the pan size. Perhaps I have been increasing the pan area without realizing it? Unless I get fancy and make pan covers out of stiff screening I will be using the same thing on my wolf sets.

What do you mean by "full screen" and do you think that those commercial pan covers are stiff enough to increase the "kill area"?

By the way, even though you don't trap wolves you know your way around coyotes. From what I understand 'yotes are about as difficult as things get (man had little problem exterminating wolves from areas but has been unable to do the same with the coyote.) so if you were in a wolf area you'd be getting your fair share. I appreciate your input. Thanks.

Beav, a couple of more questions. How do you keep the screen from bubbling up in the pan area? Have you used them successfully on the 1 1/2 coilspring? I've used them before on #2 size traps with good results, but quit using them because I was spending more time at the set due to the bubbling issue. I too was concerned about making the "kill" area too large, so a foot would be on the jaw at the same time the trap was fired. But this does not seem to happen, at least with fox and coyotes. With the shape of the screen being almost cone shaped due to the outer edges of the screen being tucked down under the jaws, the pressure needed to fire the trap decreases as you get near the pan. So if the animal steps by the jaw, the trap does not fire, but if it has a foot half on and half off the pan, the trap will fire. I am seriously considering these again if I can correct the bubbling problem.

The best way I found to get rid of the bubble Is to just punch the end of the pan shank through the screen.You can keep the screen tighter then when you cut a slot for the dog.Doing it this way the dog is over the screen and helps hold It down.
When I speak of a full screen I mean the compleat insides of the jaws are screen covered.
I never had any problems useing galvinized screen but I do boil In bakeing soda.
A nother trick with the screen Is to streach a heavy rubber band from jaw ends to jaw ends this will take the bubble out of the screen.
When I place my trap I place it so the animal will be stepping over the dogged jaw,In theory the farther from the pivot point of the pan post the less pressure it takes to spring the trap.

I have never used screen with the smaller sized 1 1/2s but I can see where the foot of a large animal could have it's foot on the jaw and the pan at the same time but that would happen with or with out screen.
I can see where the lighter pan cover material would just collapse with the weight of the dirt covering and not increase the kill area.
All In all I feel you will have a better catch per visit ratio with the full pan cover.
My wolf catch Is at two,but I realy can't count them.
I trapped In Canada with a friend and I set out several snare lines and two days after I left I caught two wolves but wasn't there to take them out of the traps.But I still have time,maybe this fall.
My wife Is going to Alaska tommrow to visit my daughter.I think they are going on a canoe trip On the Forty Mile river some where around Tok I think they are putting In At Chicken.

The Beav

I don't have any problems with toe caught fox or coyotes.

What does that mean? You don't toe catch them, or you do but they are there waiting for you?

If you mean the former, I might be tempted to try them at sets where the critters will approach slowly (ie, pee post). For trail sets, I want them FIRMLY caught--there is a sudden stop a few feet from where they hit the trap, and I want wolf and trap to stop at the same time! If you mean the latter, a fox ain't a wolf--I have never held a toe-caught wolf.

Musher, I know exactly what you mean by "the #4 myth." I've seen the same thing. People make up their minds about something and refuse to change based on little things like overwhelming evidence. I'm probably guilty of the same for some things, no matter how hard I try to keep an open mind.

And while I'm in the cut-and-paste mood:

man had little problem exterminating wolves from areas but has been unable to do the same with the coyote

I don't buy it. Wolves aren't most places and coyotes are because coyotes are more adaptable, and perhaps because they have a higher reproductive rate. I think coyotes are easier to catch than wolves. Wolves certainly seem to learn from other's mistakes better--if you pinch one, the rest of the pack tends to avoid what they perceive as similar situations--ie, they jump off the trail when they see something that might be a trap (I've jumped a pack off a trail by losing a coiled snare off my sled) or cut corners if you catch one on the corner of a trail. You can trap coyotes the same way year after year. Wolves learn (I think faster than I do most of the time!).

BTW, you are missing a good trip if you aren't coming up, Beav. The 40-mile country is full of caribou (3 less than last week...) and wolves right about now--I wouldn't mind if you came up and shot one of the former and a few of the latter! There are even a few moose over there, and season opens Sunday. I'm heading up to the Jim River this weekend for a week or so. I'm taking a canoe as well, but I cheat--I have a 19' freighter with a 10 horse on the back.