Thanks Ric, I relieze 'large twin loop' is very unclear, I read Hals description of chain nominclature by different manufactures/retailers in the archives and got a headache trying to figure out what I really wanted. Seems like everybody calls each size something different. Your size and weight per 100 ft is something I can understand. I relize length is going to vary widely by terrain but can you give me some kind of idea as to maximum workable/sensible length? Thanks, Richard